proper form debate
 

My riding buddy and I are having a small debate. We push each other and are very close in riding capability and fitness. On our longer endurance ride yesterday, afterwards my quads were on fire, but his weren't bad but he was cramping in his calves.
So the question is, are one of us pedaling incorrectly or is it just a different style of pedaling.

The only other relevant fact is I spin at a higher cadence and he mashes a heavier gear.

Thanks

Generally, cramping in the calves means that the rider needs to do more calf work. I like one-legged calf raises on a stair step a couple times a week, 1 set to exhaustion. Fix you right up. A second, less common cause for that is "ankling" or intentional contraction of the calf during the downstroke. This used to be all the rage and has now fallen into disrepute. Only do this during short power-ups. Otherwise, relax the calf on the downstroke.

Quad cramping is usually caused by insufficient back-pressure on the pedal at the bottom of the stroke. You want your hams and quads to cramp at the same time. If you train that way, it's possible to relax the quads, if they should cramp, and pedal only with the hams, and the reverse. Eventually, they both cramp and you're in a hurt. That's caused by insufficient training. If you're in shape, you don't cramp.

maybe i should clarify, neither were cramping on the bike, its hours after that i felt it more in my quads and he felt it in his calves. I think your description of "ankling" is what he's doing.

We are riding to get into shape, so our long endurance rides are relatively short to some of you, but the little bit of climbing and the distance to us was an endurance ride.

Absolutely untrue! No, make that spectacularly untrue!

I have been involved in organized sports (soccer, squash rackets, track) for a very very long time. In all those years, I have seen every kind of athlete that are fit, myself included, cramp at times. Maybe being out of shape contributes or not, but to say you do not cramp if you are in shape is definitely untrue. Watch world-class soccer sometimes (the last european championship, for instance), and you'll see every kind of fit specimen cramp at times. Especially in long extra-time games.

Take a cap with 500mg calcium and 250mg magnesium after a hard ride. Works like a charm.

Perhaps I should have said, "If you are in good shape it is very unlikely that you'll cramp, while if you're attempting something harder than your usual diet of riding, it is very possible that you will. It's the difference between what you've been doing and what you're trying to do. If you are in condition to ride a hard 400k in the heat, for instance, it's very unlikely that you'll cramp on a double century. While if your hard ride is 50 miles with 50' of climbing per mile, and you try to ride a century with that same rate of climbing, you could cramp if you overdo it. If you understand cramping as a sign of insufficient training, you'll train harder and cramp a lot less often. I've never met a fit rider who didn't understand this.

Okay, I can agree with your explanation. In recent times, I only cramp (cycling) when I've really pushed/extended myself. Especially on hot days. I ride mostly in SoCal, and I have a hunch that bleeding electrolytes has something to do with cramping, although I can't say that with scientific certainty.

And when I played competitive soccer and lived in the tropics, the cramping was almost always after you've bled salt/electrolytes for a while. And to even add to the mystery of cramping, I do not ever remember my quads cramping until I started cycling seriously. It was always calf and hamstring muscles before I started cycling. Now, with cycling, it is sometimes all three, but most times just the quads and hamstrings.

There's a lot of controversy about the causes of cramping during an event or ride. There's a now-famous study where ultra-marathoners who wound up in the med tent with cramping were tested for electrolytes and hydration and this compared to the population who did not cramp. No significant differences were noted. OTOH, "everyone knows" that dehydration and electrolyte loss causes cramping. It's very unlikely that athletes are all idiots. In this year's Stage 11, Chris Horner cramped so badly after a descent that he had to get off his bike and drink a whole bottle of water. He was able to return to the peloton. I've experienced cramping that resolved by increasing my water intake while staying with the group. OTOH I've also been severely dehydrated during the height of the season without a hint of cramping. If you research cramping on med sites, it all comes down to, "the causes are not well understood."

However, it is certain that being undertrained does lead to cramping. I'll frequently cramp in the early season, but not later when the rides are much harder and longer.

Tums ultra has 1,000 mg of calcium; Tums extra has 750 mg.

Sounds like both of you are trying to get into shape, not already in peak condition. *You'll both feel it after your long rides for a long time to come - you're on the right track. *At this stage in the game, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about your form. *As a novice rider, I would sometimes fatigue my quads first, sometimes fatigue my hams first, and sometimes my calves would give. *Get strong, focus on muscle balance and staying in shape. *Form will come, and you'll have different from than your buddy. *That's just fine. *Unless your quads are chronically fatigued, or you're feeling non-muscle related pain, don't read too much into it.