lsberrios1 

I've been trying to resist the devil on my shoulder all this time (you guys).

bmontgomery87

However long of a program you've paid for. ride it out. evaluate results. then go from there.
If you've already paid her for a 12 week diet or something, believe in it, follow it, and see where it gets you.

ThermionicScott 

Well, you're the one who came in and asked us if we thought you were on the right track...

Fat Boy

+2

Fat Boy

That's a great way to lose a lot of money in the stock market. While I agree that you should give each plan a test period of at least 4-6 weeks, you also need to know when it's time to move on.

Carbonfiberboy 

The stock market is all about gambling on the secret intentions of other people who know more than you do and wish you ill. That is not coaching. Training plans are best evaluated a full year later. Evaluating at the time can lead one to false conclusions. That said, if something is going in the wrong direction I make changes: if I'm supposed to be losing weight, but instead gain several weeks in a row, or if I'm supposed to be making power gains but am losing, or if I'm not recovering and am getting overtrained, stuff like that one notices quickly. The beauty of having a coach is the ability of the coach to use your feedback to fine-tune the program.

So far the OP has been using this nutritionist for 7 days? And is getting results? And people are carping about it? Maybe just jealous. I have a tri-geek friend with three coaches. Microsoft.

The remarks about low fat dairy are a little odd. Whey protein is the ultimate low fat dairy. I use whey protein and also use low fat or fat-free milk, which makes perfect sense. I want my macros in certain proportions at certain times and am not about to surrender my choices to the metabolism of a cow. The cow is not my coach. But sometimes I have a snack of straight cheese. It depends on what I'm trying to do with my macro intake at the time.

Maybe we'll see how this all shakes out in a month, heh heh. Meanwhile I encourage the OP to enjoy and communicate with his coach! Good times.

Fat Boy

1: Ultimately, we may agree.
2: I had missed the 7 day thing.
3: Low fat dairy is insulin spiking, like pretty much every other thing our OP is eating. By taking the fat out, you're concentrating the insulin spiking properties. That makes it tough to lose weight. Milk is good for making little mammals into big mammals. It's not so good as a tool for weight loss. While I have a bit of dairy here and there, I eat it for taste, not health.
4: At the end of a month, I think you'd have a pretty good idea of how the diet is progressing.

wolfchild

Sprint running is great for loosing pounds. So is exercising in a fasted state ( on an empty stomach). When you workout while fasting your body learns how to use fat as it's primary source of fuel..Also try short high intensity circuit training, and a high fat/high protein diet with some healthy carbs. Avoid all refined sugar, avoid refined carbs and most of all avoid hydrogeneted trans-fats

Winnershcyclist

I have tried everything took am now thinking of going vegan for a few months I am sick on. 183 +-2. I am doing a lot of riding and gym work. Strength, arebic, anerobic, swimming, trx, fst, spin, kettlebells abs and not only am i not losing weight but don't think i am getting fitter either maybe at 54 I too have flabby skin

Carbonfiberboy 

No need to go vegan. Just cut back on food. Smaller portions so that you are starving ass hungry before your next meal. Have 15g whey protein in plain water 1/2 hour before your meals, which will help you reduce portion sizes. Never eat to satiety, just until you aren't really hungry any more. Stop before finishing a meal, drink a little plain tea, and see if you could actually stop eating instead of finishing.

When you are working out, use a carb sports drink to keep your blood sugar up. You'll burn more than you drink by at least a factor of 2. When you are done, try just having 15g whey in water instead of doing a more calorific recovery drink or snack.

If you don't think you are getting fitter, you are using the wrong approach to your workouts. Try this: do an aerobic workout of at least an hour. Then do weights, sets of 30 in a circuit:
Leg sled
Seated rows
Back machine
Barbell squats
Bench press
Straight legged dead lifts
One legged standing calf raises
Lat pull-downs
Roman chair

Very little resting between exercises and use enough weight so that you are almost at failure at rep 30. Don't stand around and talk like one sees a lot of gym rats doing. One circuit should take about 25 minutes. When you can do one circuit well, do two circuits with the same weights, then three. Do this aerobic + weight workout twice a week. Do just one circuit for about 6 weeks, gradually raising the weights as you get used to it. Then add another circuit. Do that for a few weeks, then add the third.

Do that for 3 months along with the going a bit hungry thing and get back to us.

lsberrios1 

Update: Dropped from 177 last monday to 168 this morning. Clothes keep getting bigger. I only rode 3 hours last week and at a slow pace (recovery). This week intensity and mileage spike up again. I believe the diet is working.

Fat Boy

You didn't lose 9 pounds of fat in 1 week. You might have been over-working yourself and had a lot of inflammation which makes you hold onto water. By taking a rest week, your body recovered and dropped the water. Even then, that's a big drop in one week. Don't plan on it being for real unless the 177 number was inaccurate.

bmontgomery87

True.
1-2 pounds of fat is about all you are going to lose in a week. Anything over 2 and you really start losing a lot of muscle.
I'd say most of that 10 pounds was water weight though. I can usually drop 10 pounds of water in a week just by altering my carbohydrate intake.

Fat Boy

I'm not a big fan of protein shakes like CFB, but for sure, the added protein intake will help for adding muscle. Going vegan will not. Older athletes (that's us) need a lot of dense protein sources. Beans and Tofu are not good enough. Eggs and animal meat are going to be what you're looking for. Eating some organ meats isn't a bad idea, either. You get things from organ meats that you can't get from just muscle meat.

Protein is very good for hunger satiety. If you're eating 2-2.5 grams of protein for each Kg of bodyweight (~1g/lb) while eating real food (as opposed to shakes) then you will probably have a plenty full stomach. It can be hard to get that much, but getting there really helps all the way around. Most people struggle if they're constantly walking around hungry. It can make for some ugly binges, but at the same time can make for a little faster weight loss. I would prefer the approach of eating whole foods to hunger and taking the weight loss a little slower. Different horses for different courses, either can be effective.

I completely agree with CFB's weight lifting plan although I think it would be better to mix things up a bit more than that. Some strength work, some power work and a couple of aerobic days can make a well-rounded program. Pencil it out so each week is a little different. Go 3 weeks hard and 1 week easy, rinse-repeat).

Let us know how it goes.

Fat Boy

+1

Winnershcyclist

This is my day today:
2*weetabix
Gym each class 30 mins hrm 70 to 90%
12pm Hyperviper
12:30 Spin (xbike)
1pm trx
1:30pm condition class works on core...
2pm swimming TO 3:40PM

Water intake SIS energy carbs and electrolytes

6PM DINNER 300 grammes potato and carrot curry
boiled rice
Total calories in take 878 91% carbs 3% fat 6% protein

Banana and apple...

Tomorrow it will be trx and weights similar to what's Been suggested twice a week I do at least 5 days in the gym with fixie rides to and from plus additional rides in the summer about 200 a week.



You can see why I get frustrated 183lbs 5 years ago 183lbs today

Fat Boy

Who was it that said the definition of insanity was repeating the same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome?

Honestly, you've got all sorts of stuff going on. Just looking at what you've written it's hard to know where to start, so here's just some thoughts.

*You don't need more working out, you need less. When was your last rest week?
*You can probably raise your caloric intake to ~2500 calories. At 900 calories, your body thinks it's starving.
*Your macro splits are just awful. Sorry, I can't put it any other way. You must be constantly hungry.
*You should get some blood work done. I have to imagine that it isn't pretty.
*Step away from the grains.
*Have you been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes? (Not a joke, a genuine question)

If what you've written is accurate, your cortisol and inflammation levels have got to be sky-high, insulin sensitivity is in the toilet and really ugly blood lipids. To fix this is going to take a _massive_ change.

* As I've said before 2-2.5g of animal protein per kg of body weight. That will be 165-205g of protein per day for you.
* Pull most of the carbs out of your diet. Eat as much green veggies as you want, but no grains. This includes wheat, rice, etc. You probably eat a lot of fruit. You can maybe eat some, but bring it down to 1-2 pieces a day, post workout. Let's say with these changes, you're at around 150g of carbs/day.
* You didn't mention dairy, but nix it.
* With the above 750 calories of protein and 600 calories of carbs you have 1150 calories left in your food budget. Get them from (good) fat. Yes, I said fat. Cook with coconut oil. Eat olive oil on salads. Eat an avocado here and there. If you can get grass-fed butter or animal meat, then eat them both. Eat salmon, mackerel, sardines, oysters and anything else that includes Omega 3's. Eat Omega 3 eggs, free range if you can find them.
*Avoid 'man-made' oils or, for that matter, any food with an ad campaign.
* I'm recommending a macro split of 30% protein / 25% carbs / 45% fat. Honestly, you could afford to bring the carbs down (to maybe 75-100g) and fat up, but we'll take baby steps.

If you have any interest in going down the rabbit hole I've proposed, start a thread of your own and we'll track you.

Carbonfiberboy 

I somewhat agree with Fat Boy, though I recommend a different approach to nutrition.

This is an approach I believe I first saw advocated by Friel: Hold protein constant, vary carbs according to activity level and weight desired, and let fat be some percentage of carbs. I don't advocate a particularly low-fat approach: I eat cheese and use butter, vegetable and olive oils, eat nuts and avocados, etc. I do advocate eating organic as much as possible: if one wants to eat meat, only eat organic meats as the meat of today is not your grandfather's meat.

The recommendation for protein intake is 1.5g/kg bodyweight. More protein than that cannot be used for muscle synthesis and is either burned or stored as fat, both at some expense. I eat a mostly ovo/lacto/pisco/vegetararian diet. Almost everything I eat is cooked from scratch and I can't be bothered with calculating the macros. So I take about 60g of whey protein/day, which is ~.9g/kg for me. That's a low-cal way of getting enough protein. Then I vary the carbs according to the scale, how I feel, and what I'm doing. If I want to lose weight, I cut carbs. If I want to have a particularly strong workout or ride, I up the carbs. It's a very easy way to manage one's macros and it works, and works long term as a lifestyle.

I don't know anyone who eats a high fat, low-carb diet and rides at a high standard. No one, and I've ridden with hundreds of people over the years. In spite of what the low-carbers say, even long distance racers all eat high carb. Perhaps Fat Boy can post the palmares of his low carb riders. Internet personalities don't count.

Winnershcyclist: The weather where you live is almost exactly like the weather where I live. Try this:
Day 1: hard 60 mile ride in hilly terrain.
Day 2: Easy ride of the same number of hours as on Day 1 but in flatter terrain, staying constantly below the threshold of loading up your legs. Spin easy up any hills in low gears. Heart rate would be zone 1 and lower zone 2, almost no zone 3.
Day 3: On rollers, trainer, or gym bike, 15 minutes zone 1, then 15 to 45 minutes pedaling at a cadence between 115-130 or just below bouncing. Start with the low number and gradually work up to the high number. Then another 15 minutes of zone 1. Then the weight workout I recommended earlier.
Day 4: 1 hour on some gym device, cross trainer, stepmill, etc. Zone 3.
Day 5: Spin class or 1-2 hours on rollers, trainer, or gym bike, zone 2. Then again weights as recommended.
Day 6: 1 hour on some gym device, zone 2
Day 7: Off.

This is a lot less time than you are spending presently, and much more effective time. You will get a powerful training response from a schedule like this and only spend 2 days outside. You must do the outdoor rides as long as the starting temperature is above ~3°C and roads are not icy. Rain is fine. I enjoy a good rain ride. If conditions are icy, which they will occasionally be, substitute similar but shorter indoor sessions, say 2 hours on the bike on Day 1, and one hour Day 2. I don't recommend longer indoor sessions for sanity's sake. If you want to, you could substitute swimming similarly, but it won't do anything for your cycling and you have to go hard and long on Day 1. Swim to exhaustion. Then you could do the easy hour's indoor ride on Day 2.

bmontgomery87

I'd have to agree with cfboy and fat boy. You definitely seem to be working out TOO MUCH and eating TOO LITTLE.
While you don't have to ditch carbs (unless you're have diabetic issues) I would definitely put more emphasis on proteins and fats.
Veganism is NOT the answer.
Up your calories to 2000-2500 and you'll probably see more progress, I'm astounded that you're able to do so much work with such a small amount of nutrition.

Carbonfiberboy 

BTW, if someone wanted to follow my plan of reduced portion sizes with a pre-meal protein snack, you could use precooked meat, cut into finger food. 2 oz. of chicken, turkey, or jerky has about the requisite 15g protein, though of course more calories than whey protein.

bmontgomery87

Probably wouldn't even be much more honestly, most of the whey protein's have added sweeteners.
I think the best I've seen is 100 cals for 24-25grams of protein (so it's pure protein + artificial sweetners, which I would avoid)

I definitely prefer to eat a serving of meat instead of drinking a shake, but when I've gotten hooked up with free supplements the powder is convenient for filling in gaps in my diet.


Random question, not to thread hijack, what supplements do cyclists use?

I typically just use creatine, a b complex, and occasionally some fish oil for lifting. I didn't know if cyclists ever used creatine to promote recovery or not.

Carbonfiberboy 

Optimum Nutrition Gold flavored whey is 62.4 cal./15g protein.

As a mostly vegetarian, I occasionally take 5g creatine after a hard workout. Meat eating cyclists probably shouldn't. I tried loading with it once, like a lifter would, and all I got was cramps while riding, no performance increase. Worse, actually.

bmontgomery87

Makes sense.
I take 5g daily, when I remember. The whole loading thing was a brilliant way for supplement companies to get people to take unreasonable amounts for the first month, I believe.
I never saw a benefit for taking large amounts of it, but I notice an decrease in DOMS when I use it consistently.

Fat Boy

Agreed. Moderate/High-fat is not the diet to optimize cycling performance. You can have pretty good performance on the bike, feel good and be overall very healthy, however. If you get a paycheck from riding a bike, then you're going to have to throw in a much greater percentage of carbs to fuel that performance. IMO, though, long term health will suffer because of reduced insulin sensitivity, higher blood glucose levels, higher cortisol levels, less advantageous blood lipid profiles, etc. I guess I want to be open in that what I'm recommending is not geared towards elite level performance, but towards someone that wants a good 'general purpose' plan to eating well.

Having said this, Winners is running >90% carbs in his diet. That's higher than you find in Kenyan marathoners (who are the highest carb elite athlete's I'm aware of). It's an incredibly unhealthy food selection. I would be willing to bet that Winners performance on the bike would improve significantly if he were to adopt the eating strategy I've recommended, if anything just from increased calories. Fueling for elite performance is one thing, but food selection for the rest of us who want to be healthy, athletic and live a long, productive life can be somewhat different. Horses for courses, and all that jazz...

Another thing I would mention is that the difference between 'organic' meat and 'normal' meat can be pretty small. The difference is the amount of hormones that are shot into the animal (a lot of 'normal' meat is now labeled hormone-free, like organic) and the feed for the animals is organic. Pesticide-free corn meal for a cow is still feeding it corn meal. Getting grass-fed beef, free-range chicken/eggs, etc. is a much bigger difference. Grass fed beef has a fat profile that is similar to fatty fish in terms of the n-3 to n-6 balance. This is a massive shift from what you see from cornmeal fed animals. Corn fed cows are essentially fat and diabetic. They're not healthy, which is why they have so much fat marbling. Fat is not supposed to be in the middle of the muscles, but it is because the animal is sick.

Grass-fed cattle take a longer amount of time to get to slaughter weight and they are leaner, which may not taste as good (let's face it, fat tastes good), especially if over-cooked, which is easy to do. They are a healthier animal, though, and make you more healthy as well.

bmontgomery87

^^I live about 30 miles from a buffalo farm. Awesome meat, pretty lean. But it's very expensive.

I've caught it on sale before and cleared the shelves.