Well I glad that approach works for you. You sound exceptional to me, when you see the hordes of people failing at the simple eat less move more approach.

I was fit-fat for years (My buddies called me the fastest fat guy they knew). I tried to restrict calories and expend more, and found myself in a complicated cycle of measuring, counting, analyzing, over-training and fighting cravings. It didn't work (especially long term). I wanted to try something else and did a ton of research and reading. Firstly I learned that there are BIG holes in the "science" behind nutrition and the nutritional studies on all sides of the debate (much of it relying on meta studies and correlations, not scientific experimentation) and cannot believe how far behind nutritional science is compared to other areas of scientific study. Through all of this I started my own self experiment on what I ate. What I eventually came to realize is, what I ate, had an enormous impact on me and fed back into my craving and hunger management responses and specifically the timing and content of the next meal. It also affected how I burned fuel during endurance exercise (I became more fat adapted fueling vs glycogen adapted fueling and could go farther and longer without the assistance of carbs, as my fat stores could keep up with my fueling requirements and didn't have to dip into the glycogen stores as much) and again this fed back into the timing and content of the next meal. These constant feedback loops managed my diet to match and my output energy without even trying. That did not happen on a high carb diet for me.

I eat things from the HFLCMP diet, do not have to measure count, weigh, or track calorie burn; have become naturally in tune with my body's physiological responses and hunger signals (something I found completely clouded and difficult to gauge on high carb diet), and don't have cravings or uncontrollable eating habits. I now just simply live, ride my bike and play outside a lot; eat (from my HFLCMP choices) when I am hungry (stop when I am not) and weigh in at a steady 184 lbs (6'3") for almost 2 years now. I don't know if it will work for everyone, but that simple idea of eating/playing/living seems a hell of a lot more appealing than constantly measuring, counting, weighing, tracking, analyzing. And from the anecdotal responses of many struggling with weight, just eating less and moving more, ignores this important aspect of the inter-dependencies of what type of calorie you actually eat and the metabolic function/physiological responses they produce. All calories are not created equal. A lot of this goes against conventional wisdom of what we have been told is healthy for us for many years now (low fat, whole grain etc...). It hard to fathom, but until we have some real science performed (no... meta studies and causation by correlation are not true scientific experimentation), the conclusive results will elude us. Until then I go with what works for me.

The first thing he does do is reiterate that the laws of thermodynamics cannot be broke and explains that. I believe his title is referring to the simple calorie in vs calorie out approach of eating to losing weight (ignoring the other inter-dependancies of the more complex equation) won't work and therefore is wrong.

I agree the title is misleading and could be interpreted incorrectly.

I'm honestly glad you found something that works for you. It's interesting that I can basically quote part of your response, but replace "HFLCMP" with "HC", and it's true of me as well: "I eat things from the HC diet, do not have to measure count, weigh, or track calorie burn; have become naturally in tune with my body's physiological responses and hunger signals [strike this for my case: (something I found completely clouded and difficult to gauge on high carb diet)], and don't have cravings or uncontrollable eating habits. I now just simply live, ride my bike and play outside a lot; eat (from my HC choices) when I am hungry (stop when I am not) and weigh in at a steady...."

When I did intentionally diet to lose 10 pounds or so a couple years ago, I did loosely count calories for about 3 - 4 months. That was basically keeping a running total in my head for each day and comparing it to a rough estimate of my needs based on published base metabolism formulas. (I didn't weigh anything.) There was some willpower involved, and I did have to let myself be hungry to some extent. I didn't really consider the alternative of changing the kinds of things I ate as an alternative to being hungry and disciplined. However, looking back I think I did the right thing for me. I didn't (and still don't) deny myself many things I really like to eat. I would rather eat less of those things than not have them at all.

People are different, and not everything works the same for everyone diet-wise. I'm not against anyone trying a radically different diet if more-conventional choices don't work for them.

My problem with Paleo theory is that it contends that everyone is the same because our genetic makeup was formed and fixed in the paleolithic period, and whatever happened since then hasn't change anything with respect to what we should eat. Yet I exist and maintain a healthy weight while eating all sorts of carbs in large amounts, in defiance of Paleo theory. And I'm hardly the only one.

It's also important to make sure whatever you are eating is nutrient dense and highly bio-available.

M.

Calories in calories out just doesn't make sense to me. Calorie restricted diets are not healthy. Why starve yourself ??...BTW I don't follow a low-carb diet because one of my goals is to gain some more weight and build a little bit more muscle... I also eat a lot of saturated fat... For example: eating 1000 calories of saturated fat has a totally different effect on your body then eating 1000 calories of starch and sugar...The easiest way to gain weight is to increase your carb intake and decrease your fat intake. The easiest way to loose weight is to decrease your carb intake and increase your fat intake.

I've never counted a calorie, yet I eat a relatively high carb diet, don't starve myself, or eat what one might call a "calorie restricted diet." I just don't stuff myself, except maybe once a week or so at a party. I don't weigh what I weighed 50 years so, but I'm within 5 lbs. of what I weighed when I climbed in Yosemite 45 years ago. Plus my wife says I look great. So I'm good with that.

It's really simple: I don't stuff myself. I eat portion sizes that satisfy and no more. I also don't go hungry. That's the worst thing. If I feel hungry, I eat something. Small, but something.

Conscious of the thread rules, I'm not pushing my macro choices. I am saying that IMO the whole calories in/calories out argument is irrelevant. The theory simply doesn't matter. The only thing that matters to a cyclist is VAM at LT. Results. So it's what you weigh in the morning, how many miles you can do per week, how many intervals you can recover from. It's just watts at LT per kilogram. Beyond that, it's also longevity, joint and tissue health, and therefore various markers that epidemiologists have found contribute to that. But watts/kg seems to track those markers quite well. So keep your weight down, your watts up, and eat whatever helps you to achieve those two goals and remain healthy and uninjured.

I've been on some sort of paleo/primal diet for about 4 years. I'm certainly not religious about it anymore. Pretty much just gluten free. I try to eat high fat/low carb moderate protein most of the time. My staples are grass fed beef, grass fed butter, coconut oil, mct oil, chicken, eggs, veggies). Lately I've stepped up the length, intensity and elevation gains on my rides and I have been binging on carbs as part of my recovery. My go to is 1/2 cup white rice (definitely not paleo) and sometime straight sugar like jelly beans or peanut butter cups (also not paleo)

We can all cite personal experience but I know that on a much wider scale, there are countless people who have failed at every attempt to lose weight until they committed to a LCHF way of eating and then watched the weight fall off, which let them be more active, and has reversed countless health issues that all stem from a poor diet and sedentary existence.

Seems like this usually catches up with people in their 30's and 40's... 20 somethings can usually get away with a lot of physical abuse and once these bad habits catch up with you it is very hard to undo 10-20 years of creeping weight gain and the development of other health issues.

My mother in law (she is 65) just had her physical and although she has not lost much weight on a LCHF diet she has been experiencing what we strongly suspect are thyroid issues which could be impairing that, but her blood work and lipid results had gone from being ok to results that stunned her physician.

Low trigylcerides, extremely high HDL, and a marked decrease in LDL.

She has also reported much less chronic pain since she cut out grains... she suffers from some chronic neuropathy which has diminished enough that she has been able to get out and be much more active.

I'm 37 so getting to the point where metabolism isn't what it used to be. I'm 5'11 and for the past 6 years I've hovered around 190-205 lbs. I was doing more strength training at various points which added to weight but even when I had more muscle mass, I had a much bigger gut along with it. I have been paleoish for a few years but not low carb and eating 1 gram protein per pound of body weight based on strength training ideals. In the past year I have switched to high fat, moderate protein and usually 50 gram of carb most days, binging to 100-150 grams on days when I am very active. My excercise now cycling which I have increased 10 fold over the past year and body weight exercise a couple of times a week (pull ups, dips, etc). Long story short, I'm now at 165 lbs and none of my pants will stay on me. Leanest I've been since high school and I attribute it completely to diet. While I'm cycling a lot more over the past year, I am actually less active then I was in the past few years because I had been lifting weights 3-4 days a week and training jiu jitsu and muay thai a 3-4 days a week

Just a quick question;

What do you guys think about bananas as an on-the-saddle snack? For the last two rides I take with me a banana cut in half and eat them 50 minutes apart (my rides are 150 minutes long)

Does any one of you use energy drinks or home made alternatives? I tried green tea but didn't really like the taste. I'd like to hear some alternative isotonic drinks.

My weekend rides are generally 150 minutes and I don't eat anything until I'm done. I will usually have a cup or two of black coffee in the morning before I ride and then just drink water during ride. Eat when I get home. Everyone's body is different. I think a banana is a fine snack to have during the ride

Hi. I'm new to the forum. I have been successfully doing Paleo since January of this year. Next to getting my new bike, it's been the best decision I've made in a long time. I truly believe I would not have delt with my anxiety of getting on a bike had I not achieved this feeling of well-being since adopting this way of eating.

I like bananas being that they are a nearly perfect food but only eat them on rare occasions as my wife is allergic to them and we can't have them in the house.

Stems from developing a latex allergy when she had cancer and bananas and avocados cause a similar reaction as they are cross reactive.

How do you figure them a perfect food?

M.

Thought I'd pop in and say hello. I'm not low carb or paleo, but I'm not traditional diet ("western lifestyle disease", as I've recently heard it described). I do what I'd characterize as slow carb, which people readily confuse with extremes on both end: I'm neither low carb nor high protein nor high fat, but I feel like I'm at least a cousin to low carb/paleo, if not a brother, as I'm considered very difficult by my friends and family, when it comes to cooking for me, and figuring out what I'll eat. I keep telling people to just make me a big bowl of broccoli, but I think they're not believing me, and thinking that I'm somehow mocking them.

Essentially, I eat lean protein (gearing towards 90-100g per day, want to maintain and build muscle), moderate amounts of fat (don't make an effort to avoid fat, but do try to be selective, more avocado and fish than bacon, although I do love bacon), as well as low GI carbs. Means I eat a lot of salad, a lot of veggie, and beans as my carb sources. No active goal to be below any particular carb number, just want to avoid high GI carbs (white potatoe, bread, sugar, rice, etc). I do make exceptions when I'm cycling, and I am striving to learn how to eat more cleanly when fueling for cycling, more real food and less chemicals and packaged gunk.

i find myself, for somewhat different, but related reasons, avoiding most processed and packaged foods, and cooking a lot for myself, with a lot of the same meals. Eat a LOT of salads. On my salad meals, I'm essentially filling a large mixing bowl. Takes me 45 minutes sometimes to chew through all that rabbit food :)

Biggest gap I have nutritionally is likely calcium, as I don't really eat much dairy. Do supplementary calcium as a result. Do occasionally eat a nice piece of fruit, but try to limit to once a day, after a very solid meal, to limit the resulting sugar spike. Was absolutely amazed when I started how addicted my body was to sugar and caffeine. Withdrawal symptoms were horrific, but after a few weeks, I was clean. I still have a single small cup of coffee in the morning, more as a ritual than anything else, and can cut it or delay it as needed with no ill effects. Have also severely moderated alcohol, and usually have a glass of red wine max, but its gotten to be very infrequent.

Hi all, I’m really intrigued by this diet, and I have some questions if you don’t mind. I’ve been on the standard low fat diet for years, and recently tried to reduce carbs a little. I read about LCHF a year ago, but it seemed too good to be true. I’ve been eating a fruit smoothie for breakfast, and for me breakfast is my first challenge with the LCHF diet. I like eggs, but not for breakfast. I’m going to give the bullet proof coffee a try. I may have a smaller smoothie and remove the more sugary fruit.

Apparently fruit should be avoided? When I look at carb amounts in fruit, they aren’t very high. I take it the sugar content in fruit makes it a bad choice? In that case, reading carbohydrate amounts isn’t the whole story, and I have to look at sugar amounts? I drink a glass of wine per day. Is it true that the wine will reduce the rate of weight loss, but otherwise it’s OK?

What are the general guidelines in terms of grams? I’ve read that the balance is about 75% fat, 20% protein, 5% carbs… but what do I aim for in grams, based on body weight? I weigh 143 lbs at the moment. (I’m a 5’2” woman, I’d be thrilled to lose 15 or 20 lbs.)

I find it daunting to get enough fat, and to get more fat than protein :-) We eat fish once or twice a week, so I imagine loading up on a butter-based sauces will help. I’ve been looking at the website below for ideas. I’ve noted a couple of the links in this thread, but if you can recommend resources for the beginner, I’d appreciate it. Some websites recommend the Atkins books, but that system doesn’t seem to match exactly, and it seems overly regimented.
Ketogenic Diet Resource

Thanks for all the great information, this thread has been fascinating!

You'll get different advice from different people and a lot of it involves self experimentation. I am a male around 170 lbs now. I generally aim for 50-100 g carbs and I find I get into ketosis quickly if I stay under 50 g for a few days. I've stayed in ketosis for a couple of weeks at a time and I haven't personally found any real benefits.

As for breakfast BP coffee is delicious and I've done it off and on but I usually go with black coffee and do more of a true fast until lunch at 1-2 pm for me. But at the end of the day I listen to my body. Days when I do 25 miles of fast riding and climbing before work I'll usually have some bacon,eggs and potatoes after my ride for breakfast. Days when I'm not active I fast.

OK, it's been over a week. I read that grams of protein should be .8 to 1.2 x body weight in kg. I tried initially getting carbs down around 20 per day, but I developed raging heartburn. Too much butter early in the morning, I think. I went back to a modified fruit smoothie which seems to have calmed down the heartburn. Before this I was eating a whole banana every morning, and I think I have to keep up some of the less-acid producing foods in the morning. I can do bulletproof coffee later in the day.

From my reading it seems that the energy I need for cycling will be built up the day before, in fat stores. If I choose to eat on a ride it would be to address hunger, but I wouldn't expect any kind of energy boost from eating high fat foods on a ride. Sort of blows the whole "eat 15 minutes before and then again in an hour" instruction on my gu packets... I also expect my total cholesterol will go higher, and I anticipate a little discussion with my doctor in a year.

Yeah, if you ride slow. If you are pushing past threshold over and over, like in a race, fat stores will not be able to provide you energy.

I'm curious how low carb you are and how much you ride? I've been doing paleo/low carb thing for about 4 years but mostly strength training and doing short intense cardio. Lately I've been increasing my cycling and doing 100+ miles a week on the bike. My long rides are usually around 2 hours and some shorter 45-60 min rides all at about 15-17 mph pace depending on the amount of climbing

My weekly cycling has probably doubled in the last two months. My energy levels are fine but my legs always tight and sore and never seem to fully recover. I have increased my carbs but avg around 100-150 g per day mainly from white rice and potatoes. Of course most cycling specific diet plans I read say I should be taking in about 500-600 g of carbs per day based on my weight 170 lbs (haha).

I really don't think anyone needs more than 150g carbs per day regardless of activity. But just curious to hear from the other weirdos here that are riding as much as me and more than me how many carbs they have and from what sources?

I'm relatively new to the low carb diet, but it seems that once you've adapted, adding more carbs won't help. Maybe add some foam rolling to loosen the muscles and IT bands? Make sure you're getting plenty of water and minerals. If the theory is that you're burning what you ate yesterday, maybe bump up the fat and protein the day before a ride.

**I posted this as its own thread and was advised to bring this over here**

I am on week 10 of eliminating all processes foods from my diet (cheat meal once every two weeks). I lost 20 pounds and have another 20 to go. Problem is, I've been hovering at the same weight for going on three weeks. I am commuting by bike every day, but have not gotten any "fun" rides or training rides in.

So, should I tweak my diet some more, wait it out, or up my weekly mileage on the bike? I am only doing 40 miles/week, but I could easy double that. I was really pumped about my weight loss but I am getting frustrated since the loss stopped.

Some stats: I am short at 5' 2". I was 130-ish when I got married 17 years ago. I was 187 when I started a Paleo-type diet. I am hovering around 167 - 171 for the past three weeks. I eat clean, and only when I am hungry. Carbs are less than 100 gram/day. I just started eating a large salad for lunch, as I wasn't eating near the greens I could have been. Hard-boiled eggs are my go to snack.

Any help as to why I stalled on weight loss?

Preparing for a short bike tour / campout... will be picking up fresh veggies and some fruit (bananas) on the route.

Rough estimate is that there are 20,000 plus calories here with the coconut oil and creamed coconut comprising half of that, the nuts and dried fruit are another 5000 calories.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/bikefood.JPG

Coconut oil, coconut cream, dried nuts and fruit, tinned fish, hot Hungarian sausage, sauerkraut, dark chocolate, and a few packets of freeze dried soup (low carbohydrate) for quick hot meals.

I nibble on the dried fruit and nuts when I am riding and this goes in the handlebar bag... this has worked on many a century ride as it provides a nice balance of macros.

The sauerkraut is really good for replenishing electrolytes and will use the creamed coconut and coconut oil to make a few pots of bulletproof chai for my fellow riders... :D

In moderation, bananas are an excellent source of potassium and very high in a wide range of vitamins and minerals.

As far as fruit goes, you can't beat them.

Riding more will help and so will cross-training (running, walking, weight-lifting, etc.). What does your alcohol consumption look like?