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Exhausted in the A.M.?

Old 05-11-14, 09:58 PM
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Caad08
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Exhausted in the A.M.?

It doesn't matter how much sleep I get or what I eat for breakfast, if I do any riding before 8am, my HR is much higher than it is normally.

Morning group rides I hit my max HR the minute the pace goes above warm-up, rides that I can do easily in the afternoon.

Can I change this or am I just not a morning person? I'm only 22.
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Old 05-11-14, 10:11 PM
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I run a 5K to 10K, intervals, at 6-6:30am every morning and monitor HR. My tip is a) no food prior, and b) start slow, and c) expect a spike before your HR settles down. I'm 61.

Of course, it may simply be you are not a morning person. But if you are eating prior, I'd guess your digestive system is competing with your cardio for attention. Don't multi-task your body. You ought to be good for 60-90 minute work-outs in the morning without adding food - until recovery. If you feel you need something early on, sip Cytomax or Perpetuem.
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Old 05-11-14, 10:19 PM
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I commute in the morning and evening and my HR is always higher for the same effort in the morning. My suspicion is that's it's related to hydration. I would try drinking more in the morning before your ride. I don't notice my power being any lower, only my HR is affected.
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Old 05-12-14, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
I commute in the morning and evening and my HR is always higher for the same effort in the morning. My suspicion is that's it's related to hydration. I would try drinking more in the morning before your ride. I don't notice my power being any lower, only my HR is affected.

Sounds about right. I'm always a little winded in the morning for my first climb and notice that my HR is higher than it is on my ride home.
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Old 05-12-14, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
I commute in the morning and evening and my HR is always higher for the same effort in the morning. My suspicion is that's it's related to hydration. I would try drinking more in the morning before your ride. I don't notice my power being any lower, only my HR is affected.
That sounds reasonable...
... In the morning we end a 7,8, 9 hour fast where we have not take in any nutrients or hydration and expect our bodies to perform as if that had never happened -- like we had entered a state of 'suspended animation'. It's one of the reasons why breakfast is 'the most important meal of the day'.
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Old 05-12-14, 06:24 AM
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Yeah. I wake up at 5:20, drink coffee and eat a granola bar or eat cereal. And I'm on my bike by 5:40.
My body doesn't get much time to get itself together before I'm asking a lot of it.
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Old 05-12-14, 07:45 AM
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If I train, regardless of the activity, I always get a better workout when I've fasted. You're young, so you have plenty of time to learn what your body likes and doesn't like, but don't be afraid to trick it sometimes. Just stay hydrated, maybe throw in some BCAA's so you prevent your body from going catabolic until you've had your first meal.
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Old 05-12-14, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
It's one of the reasons why breakfast is 'the most important meal of the day'.
According to whom? Corporate marketing? More and more research seems to say intelligent fasting, and skipping breakfast, delivers:

Reduced:
blood lipids, blood pressure, markers of inflammation, oxidative stress, and cancer

Increased:
Cell turnover and repair, fat burning, growth hormone release, and metabolic rate

Improved:
Appetite control, blood sugar control, cardiovascular function, and neuronal plasticity
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Old 05-12-14, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by FrenchFit View Post
According to whom? Corporate marketing? More and more research seems to say intelligent fasting, and skipping breakfast, delivers:

Reduced:
blood lipids, blood pressure, markers of inflammation, oxidative stress, and cancer

Increased:
Cell turnover and repair, fat burning, growth hormone release, and metabolic rate

Improved:
Appetite control, blood sugar control, cardiovascular function, and neuronal plasticity
Well said. The whole idea that breakfast is indispensable is nothing but marketing.
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Old 05-12-14, 01:54 PM
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I'll go ahead and try skipping breakfast, or maybe limit it to a banana, and I do have some bcaas that I could drink.

Usually I did have a big breakfast because I thought I would need the energy.

I'll try drinking more water too, maybe what I thought is enough wasn't.

thanks for the replies.
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Old 05-12-14, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by carnivroar View Post
Well said. The whole idea that breakfast is indispensable is nothing but marketing.
It's really dependent on an individuals diet. Although, yes, studies have shown that fasted exercise has many benefits. I'm all for it.


Caad, fasted means fasted. A banana would not apply here. If you want a jump start, drink a cup of coffee.
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Old 05-12-14, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by NutriLogic View Post
It's really dependent on an individuals diet. Although, yes, studies have shown that fasted exercise has many benefits. I'm all for it.


Caad, fasted means fasted. A banana would not apply here. If you want a jump start, drink a cup of coffee.
Yeah, try coffee with coconut oil in the morning, or "bulletproof coffee". If you ate well enough the night before, you won't need any extra calories. Not only that, but eating a large meal prior to exercise can be detrimental, as digestion is an expensive process.
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Old 05-12-14, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
It's one of the reasons why breakfast is 'the most important meal of the day'.
Absolute nonsense !!
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Old 05-12-14, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by carnivroar View Post
Well said. The whole idea that breakfast is indispensable is nothing but marketing.
+1 I've been over this so many times with others, I feel great without a morning breakfast. I have my food when I feel it's needed, and it's not when I wake up.
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Old 05-12-14, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by FrenchFit View Post
According to whom? Corporate marketing? More and more research seems to say intelligent fasting, and skipping breakfast, delivers:

Reduced:
blood lipids, blood pressure, markers of inflammation, oxidative stress, and cancer

Increased:
Cell turnover and repair, fat burning, growth hormone release, and metabolic rate

Improved:
Appetite control, blood sugar control, cardiovascular function, and neuronal plasticity
That's curious...not a single one of those abstracts mentions breakfast.
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Old 05-12-14, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by carnivroar View Post
Well said. The whole idea that breakfast is indispensable is nothing but marketing.
I agree 100% that it's marketing and very successful marketing as millions of people are falling for it. If people stopped eating breakfast cereals then those companies that produce them would go out of business...Modern breakfast cereals will spike your insulin the same way as eating haloween candies and washing it down with cool-aid. It's no wonder that so many people have a sugar crash and bonk by 10:00 AM in the morning... I don't eat any breakfast because I feel better and have more energy when I don't eat anything in the morning. I just drink coffee at 5:30 AM and then hop on my bike and go. I don't even start eating any solid food until almost noon hour. Works well for me.
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Old 05-14-14, 10:33 AM
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Just to add, I have never been a morning person, and hated working out in the mornings. I contributed to not getting a deep enough sleep to feel rested in the morning. I started taking ZMA, and that changed everything. It does give you crazy dreams, but also helps you get a deeper sleep.
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Old 05-14-14, 04:11 PM
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It depends somewhat on how long your group ride is. A decent 10k running time is only 40 minutes. Most group rides go for at least 1.5 hours. Mine usually run 3 hours. The longer the ride, the more nutrition is necessary.

I wouldn't worry about higher HR in the morning. Ignore it. If you think you're hitting your MHR right away, that's not even close to your MHR. OTOH, if you are lacking power and high HR is a symptom of your having to push harder, that's problem unrelated to MHR.

In that case, one might ask what's different about morning that makes riding harder than in the afternoon? The answer is that by afternoon you've eaten and digested two meals. I've gone through periods during which I've gotten up early and hit the rollers first thing in the morning with only coffee. When I've done that, my power at HR was noticeably higher than in the afternoon. OTOH, my duration at any decent power was very short.

When you sleep, your brain doesn't. It keeps burning glucose at its normal hourly rate. During a normal night's sleep, it'll burn about 400 calories, almost all of which comes from liver glycogen. I couldn't possibly go for a group ride in the morning without eating. I'd have a metabolic bonk right off. Muscle glycogen would be fine, but not the brain and various other subsystems.

There are two protocols which work for hard early morning rides:
1) Don't eat until about 15 minutes before the ride start. Then have something like a Clif Bar or a couple hundred calories of gel. Then eat at about a 200 cal/hr rate during the ride, gels, sports drink, whatever.
2) Eat a very high GI carb/low fat breakfast with a little protein 45 minutes to an hour before the ride start. 200-400 calories - experiment to see what you can handle. Then eat during the ride, too, but maybe not as much as in #1 . When I do that, I use liquid food: a drink made of only maltodextrin and whey protein. That works very well.

Breakfast is the most important meal of the day:
Why it is so Important to Eat Breakfast?
Google "why is breakfast so important" for more links.

So be sure to have a decent, balanced meal after the ride, just not too many calories.
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Old 05-16-14, 01:15 AM
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Its a very fast paced group ride lasts about 1.5 to 2 hrs. Usually be something like a warm up along a flat road, and the pace picks up right at a small hill climb. Right there my HR spikes and I fall behind. I'll try full fasting first, andNot even banana. I assume Hammer Heed is acceptable during the ride? Then if it doesnt work ill try eating 15 min before.
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