Noonievut

I just finished searching for, and reading threads about swimming benefits (or lack there of) for cycling. I think my situation is a bit different (explained below) so I was wondering if anyone has similar experiences or can talk about swimming to help with my situation.

To make a long story short: cycling for 10 years. Lots in the last couple of years. My work involves sitting at a desk for long periods (has for 15+ years). I didn't realize until recently that my posture in front of the computer was so bad coupled with lots of cycling...well my neck/shoulders started hurting a lot this summer (after being a minor inconvenience for a few years). So for the past 6 months I've tried a lot of different remedies to help my neck and shoulders. Probably the most important has been better posture at work, and frequent breaks where I stand up and do a few stretches, walk around, etc. I stretch a lot. Cut back on cycling. Take magnesium supplements. etc.

However, despite months of practicing good posture guided by a PT and common sense, plus other remedies, my shoulder and neck pain were still there (though improved). About 3-4 weeks ago I started swimming. I've swam before, so I have an ok stroke and practice bilateral breathing. I've been swimming about 1,200m 4-5 times a week and finally my neck/shoulders are nearly 100%.

Thing is, I can't say for sure it's because of swimming. Likely a combination of things...but with the stretch from that nice easy swim stroke, plus some upper body strength gains, I'm guessing that it's been very helpful. I want to continue to swim, mainly for flexibility/strength so that I can continue to cycle (and live) with little to no neck and shoulder pain. I'm not looking for swimming to make me faster on the bike, rather to make me stronger while riding the bike.

Only so much time in the day and I would really like to not also have to take up a core workout program...as such I'm hoping swimming 4-5 times a week will do the trick (coupled with stretching daily and other good posture exercises).

Thoughts? Thanks!

bouldergeek

I'm going through something similar. 47 year old computer systems professional, so mucho tiempo sedentary.

I had a minor motorcycle get-off last year, and my shoulder has been hurting for about 8-10 months. Most people I have consulted concur it is the biceps brachii not being in the groove. I can curl and do pushups just fine. Just the soft hanging weight of my own arm makes it feel like it is being sawed off.

I am also prone to back pain and strains in the sacro-lumbar region. Sacroiliac joint and tendon have had problems in the past (bicycle and motorcycle injuries). I find that swimming forward crawl and backstroke really help with range of motion and getting things to go back to neutral.

If I swim twice a week, my shoulder is nearly perfect. If I forget for a month, the pain is back.

Machka 

I have shoulder issues after crashing and separating my left shoulder a few years ago. My chiropractor recommended either swimming or rowing to strengthen the area.

And in the past, I have found that when I do some upper body weight lifting + rowing + core work, I feel much more comfortable on the bicycle for longer periods of time.

I need to start doing all that regularly again.

nkfrench

As a former mediocre competitive swimmer, my perspective is that swimming is great exercise for upper body.
Do some in-pool stretching after a light warmup.

Switch up your strokes to avoid muscle imbalances.
Each one works different muscles - butterfly, backstroke, breaststroke, freestyle.
The individual medley lets you fatigue your butterfly muscles, then you change strokes and another group of muscles is stressed. And so on for the rest of the interval. Great for cardio fitness.

Fins are fun and enable better all-over conditioning as long as you integrate them into the full stroke and don't allow the legs to dominate. With them I could easily swim proper butterfly for hundreds of yards despite a horrible kick.
If you can't do breaststroke kick or butterfly, use the breaststroke armpull with a single dolphin kick instead of the breaststroke kick.

Noonievut

Thanks for the posts. While I've been doing mainly freestyle, I mix in the occasional backstroke. I'll plan do utilize different strokes more frequently, as for me it's less about being a great swimmer at a particular stroke than using swimming to ward off other issues.

BadBurrito

Just to throw in my story

about 2 years ago, I slipped on some ice while walking with the dog, and landed on my shoulder. I totally messed something up. I couldn't pull a seltbelt across my chest to drive, If while I slep I happened to roll to that side, I'd wake up a few minutes later in terrible pain that would last for hours. It started to improve week by week for a month or so, but then it didn't get any better. I had trouble lifting things above my head (even dishes to put them in the cabinet). and of course sleeping on that side was out of the question.

I went to my doctor, he said, nothing broken, so it will improved in a few weeks, after a couple of months and no improvement I went to a chiropractor - same answer, nothing broken, it will improve with time, here are some stretches you can do. after 6 months, no improvement. All this time I was also running and biking. and I developed plantars facitis in one foot. So I thought I'd layoff the running and biking for a while and try swimming laps because it was low impact.

Initially swimming was horrible because it hurt to extend my arm above my shoulders. I'm still amazed I keep at it. But the shoulder started improving, so much so I completed the 100 mile challenge at the Y (swim 100 miles in a year), and the shoulder felt great.

This last december was chaos around our house, and I didn't swim much. Well, My shoulder pain has returned - not as bad as before, but it is definately back.

I started swimming again regularly a few days ago.

Noonievut

Makes what I'm going through rather minor in comparison. I would like to hear how quickly your shoulder pain dissipates after continuing swimming.

A related question - when you started swimming again after not swimming much in December did you find that after the initial swim (or two) you were sore, but it got better? Right now I'm trying to understand the immediate and "days after" good and bad of swimming. I usually feel awesome after lots of swimming, but maybe a bit sore the first day back after a short break.

nkfrench

There are different kinds of shoulder soreness. If it's sore muscles, some rest, ice, stretching, and a good warmup help.

If it's joint pain, you may be getting "swimmer's shoulder", irritated and swollen tendons and the channels they run through. Quit doing anything that makes it hurt, sometimes switching strokes works, maybe you have to just kick instead of swim. This will happen more often if you have technique problems and are putting the brunt of the exercise on your arms and shoulders, not taking advantage of the very strong lats.

As with most other sports, ease into it gradually for a steady progression. If you're conditioned from cycling, your cardio system may be fine but your swimming muscles and joints likely aren't ready for intense workouts.

ModeratedUser150120149

Sort of surprised no one has mentioned yoga. Yoga, especially the light exercise kind like Hatha seems to benefit the whole body.

Noonievut

I was doing yoga for 3-4 months until my neck and shoulder pain spiked. While yoga wasn't the cause, the amount of positions that utilize the arms was too much for me (at the time) and I couldn't continue. I prefer swimming to yoga, though I do like both, but unfortunately I can't fit both into my schedule.

Noonievut

As I've swam before I'm familiar with good technique (though I'm not an expert). I try and roll my body the proper amount so that my high elbow catch isn't occurring when I'm flat in the water, but when the belly button is close to pointing to the wall (not to get technical on a bike forum!). I've had swimmers shoulder and I'm familiar with that feeling. The feeling I was referring too was in the neck area and was the issue before I started swimming...I don't think swimming is making this worse, rather it's making it better (though it may be a bit sensitive after a swim).

After yesterday's swim I'm feeling great this morning. As expected.

Calder Benson

"As a former mediocre competitive swimmer, my perspective is that swimming is great exercise for upper body.
Do some in-pool stretching after a light warmup.

Switch up your strokes to avoid muscle imbalances.
Each one works different muscles - butterfly, backstroke, breaststroke, freestyle.
The individual medley lets you fatigue your butterfly muscles, then you change strokes and another group of muscles is stressed. And so on for the rest of the interval. Great for cardio fitness.

Fins are fun and enable better all-over conditioning as long as you integrate them into the full stroke and don't allow the legs to dominate. With them I could easily swim proper butterfly for hundreds of yards despite a horrible kick.
If you can't do breaststroke kick or butterfly, use the breaststroke armpull with a single dolphin kick instead of the breaststroke kick."


Thanks for this. Do these moves need to be taught/learned or will the body naturally do them? I have some upper body muscle imbalances and while I technically know how to swim ( keep from drowning), I'm not very efficient at it.

Calder Benson

Also wanted to add that it seems to me that doing the different strokes wrong or doing them with certain kinds of joint / tendon issues or imbalances could make the issue worse.

Not trying to get away from the point that swimming is therapeutic and low impact in many cases, but just like anything it can exacerbate a clinical case of xyz.

I posed the question above having no experience with swimming in a rehab situation or elsewhere.

nkfrench

Calder, most of the injuries are from a combination of poor technique combined with overuse / increasing yardage too fast.
Bad technique can also make you work too hard and tire too soon.
There are some decent books for casual/recreational swimmers to help with technique. Probably a few instructional videos too.
The problem is that you can't really "see" what you are doing in the water to know what could be improved.
It helps to have somebody else with a swimming background give feedback or at least take some videos of you.
Basically, your hands should be deeper in the water than your elbows when you are applying the most force.
Your body should roll gently along its long axis (nose to toes) to facilitate that high elbow pull -- and let you breath.
As a golfer does, the hips and torso muscles help finish the swing (arm pull).
Relax and don't try to muscle your way through the water. Finesse. Breathe deeply and regularly.

ModeratedUser150120149

That is reasonable. Most of us are not professional athletes so do not have time to do everything. Also, you post that you prefer swimming. Perfectly reasonable.

My experience is there are many exercises that are beneficial. Aficionados of each often overlook the benefits of others and mistake preference for efficacy.

We amateurs have to always remember there is lots of money in the exercise business. Lots of people fall for the snake oil of the latest exercise or machine when something older and cheaper will do the job.

GeorgeBMac

That sounds great! And the swimming is a great compliment to what you get from cycling. But I would still add core training. You don't need a lot -- just 15 minutes a day or most days of some sit-ups, planks and a few others that you might feel are helpful . I might be biased in that advice because I have a mild scoliosis that needs daily stretching and strengthening (or it reminds me!). But I've found that everything starts from the core and when that feels good, I feel good. Your posture will improve and you will feel better, breath better and so on...

Noonievut

Thanks. I know there are many online references for core workouts, but would you mind sharing your 15 minute workout (I wouldn't mind starting with it, and adjusting from there). I can easily do a 15 minute workout each evening.

GeorgeBMac

I don't do a lot. Nor do I do a lot of fancy stuff. Just, mostly, some simple basic stuff. But I try to get it in each and every day...

I start with various stretches of hips and legs -- that helps keep my back spasms to minimum and keeps me more flexible.
Then, first, I do what I call "6 inches": laying on my back, lift my heels off the floor about 6 inches and hold it for 12 seconds. I do 6 repeats.

I then do a Pilates style sit up where there is nothing holding my legs down. And, I slowly roll up one vertebra at a time and then, slowly back down -- again one vertebra at a time.

I then do planks, front and on each side. For the front I just do 25 pushups (I figure its still doing the plank -- just adding some arm and shoulder strength into the mix). Then for the sides I am on my feet and extended arm (some just do from the knee to the elbow which is a lot easier). I do 2 or 3 repeats of 60 seconds..

I then do a few Pilates based core strength exercises that are harder to explain. But one is a modified sit up where you keep your knees and heels raised off the floor with you calfs parallel to the floor and then again come up and down slowly, one vertebrae at a time.

But, all of that are just exercises that I have accumulated over time. There is no real knowledge or science behind them. I just find that they are things that I can and will do and that make a difference for me. I think it is good for you to find what works best for you...
... Best of luck with it!

Calder Benson

Thanks for the info, nkfrench. I'll look into it.

FrenchFit 

Swimming, good -- especially with a waterproof mp3 player. What really helped me overcome a shoulder injury was boxing drills with a coach. I suspect a cardio class with a real bag would do the same thing - but you need to make contact with something, not air punch. Amazing upper body, cardio and core work-out. And, you won't bulk up either.

rumrunn6

swimming always made me feel amazing

marimorimo

I'm a pretty poor 'swimmer' who only started learning a couple years back and yet I felt the benefits of a one-hour swim after cycling a hundred kilometers in a poor position and a bike with handlebars too close for my long arms, resulting in arm and shoulder pain. The swimming worked better than a massage.

Noonievut

It's been a while since I posted this thread, so I thought I would give an update (might be useful for future searches through the forums).

After trying swimming for many months my shoulder/neck issue didn't get better. And the pool I was going to start getting a lot busier, so I quit (not to say I won't take it up again in the future).

In August I started a strength training program with a PT. While the exercises have been good, they haven't remedied my pain points. However, the mobility, stretching and tips I gained to combat my pains have been invaluable. I would say those alone took me down to a 3/10 from a 5/10 on the pain meter (10/10 being when the pain was the worse).

I wasn't feeling so good in November though. Woke up every morning with a stiff and sore neck. After stretching it would improve, but the same again the next morning. Little while ago I went to an ugly xmas sweater party. That day I remember eating lots of candy ("november"...follows halloween and my daughter got lots of junk this year...see where this is going ;-), and then at the party I had some wine and sweets.

Next day I wake up with the pain 7/10. Sitting in bed I'm thinking, but I didn't do anything stressful to my neck/shoulder that day - odd? Maybe it's sugar.

Didn't eat anything with added sugar that Sunday. Monday - 2/10! Full week after, still no added sugar - 1/10!!! I'm waking up every morning with the only the most minor stiffness in my neck. And it's gone the rest of the day after some mild stretching. It's still not there even after long gravel rides.

I'm past the point where it's in my head.

Lesson learned!

GovernorSilver

I have heard that sugar can be a cause of inflammation - maybe that is why backing off on sugar reduced your pain.

You might want to start a food diary - write down what you eat every day, and note how your body reacts. That might help narrow it down for you.

Also take a look at how you sit and stand, or even better ask someone to observe your posture - a lot of people let their heads sag forward as well as the shoulders for a rounded upper back - especially those who use mobile devices a lot (texting, web surfing, etc.), without even thinking about it.

Noonievut

My poor posture is initially what led to my neck and shoulder issues. I now have better posture at work, and I get up often to stretch.