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A Question About Power

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A Question About Power

Old 05-06-22, 08:26 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Do you really think human evolution has progressed so rapidly that physiology has changed in 20 years?
no I donít, that would be silly of me.

But, do you think science in training has sat still for 20 years !


(Its been nice chatting, but Iím done here)
(OP, sorry for the subject tangent)


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Old 05-06-22, 08:35 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Do you really think human evolution has progressed so rapidly that physiology has changed in 20 years?
Aerobic capacity IS VO2 max

You're simply wrong.
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Old 05-06-22, 08:41 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
no I donít, that would be silly of me.

But, do you think science in training has sat still for 20 years
That table has nothing to do with how to train. It illustrates the physiological response to exercise at various intensities and clearly shows VO2max responds most to training at Coggan's Level 5 (106-120% of threshold power). This is in contrast to the earlier statement,
Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
VO2 max responds more to high volumes of lower impact aerobic training, than it does to high impact anaerobic training.
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Old 05-06-22, 08:43 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Aerobic capacity IS VO2 max

You're simply wrong.
Try riding 30 minutes at VO2max.
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Old 05-06-22, 09:04 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Try riding 30 minutes at VO2max.
What is your point?

You are wrong. Period. Aerobic capacity is VO2 max, it is NOT FTP or some other lower intensity.
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Old 05-06-22, 09:10 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by cyclezen View Post
As noted, there are quite a number of good resources which you can refer to for basic triath training, books and internet. But you also have a 14 yr old, who will have her own ideas on what she wants. First is to determine how much investment she's willing to make into being a Triathlete.

If she's wanting to put a focus on Tri, then appropriate, good coaching is by far the best approach to supporting her and her efforts.
There's been a lot of advice in this thread that I'm not going to say is bad, but it is misguided. Cyclezen's advice is by far the best.

I have a 15-year-old daughter, and an older daughter who used to be a teen. Most of y'all are giving advice designed for adult men rather than teen girls. Stop that.
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Old 05-06-22, 09:18 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
What is your point?

You are wrong. Period. Aerobic capacity is VO2 max, it is NOT FTP or some other lower intensity.
My point is that despite what you say, aerobic capacity is a term commonly used to capture the same concept embodied in FTP, MLSS, CP, etc.
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Old 05-06-22, 09:21 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by RChung View Post
There's been a lot of advice in this thread that I'm not going to say is bad, but it is misguided. Cyclezen's advice is by far the best.
OK. Iím motivated to do better.
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Old 05-06-22, 09:25 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by ntcarson View Post
Thank you all for your time and consideration. My daughter and I have started digesting the book, ordered a crankset PM, talked to an old friend who is a triathlete, and will start leaning more heavily on the team coaches for guidance.
We have a triathlon forum. I could move this thread to that forum for you and you may get some additional information.

My comment about your PM question is, find a triathlon coach who specializes in or at least coaches juniors to assist you with equipment selection and training. As far as spending money, racing is a bottomless pit. It is impossible to fill it with money. But you can try.
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Old 05-06-22, 09:50 AM
  #35  
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A 14 year old would be best following Eddy Merckx's advice. Ride lots. Ride upgrades. And.....my tidbit.....have fun.

If she is develops and is interested in 6+ months, hire a coach. Don't listen to internet idiots like me.
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Old 05-06-22, 11:54 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
A 14 year old would be best following Eddy Merckx's advice. Ride lots. Ride upgrades. And.....my tidbit.....have fun.

If she is develops and is interested in 6+ months, hire a coach. Don't listen to internet idiots like me.
An obvious point in the name of the event is Tri meaning three different events combined into one. Swimming is the most technical of the three and typically, the bike portion is non decisive. So ride lots is sort of BS for a triathlete.

If she were my daughter and she is interested / excited about triathlon and competition, I would hire a coach immediately, especially for the swim part so that she would not develop wrong muscle memory / technique and have to correct it later. I am not a Tri but I have trained with tris at camps. Typically, they do two events per training session such that there is a lot more volume at lower intensities.

I am moving the thread to the Tri forum. It has run its course here.
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Old 05-06-22, 12:07 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
An obvious point in the name of the event is Tri meaning three different events combined into one. Swimming is the most technical of the three and typically, the bike portion is non decisive. So ride lots is sort of BS for a triathlete.
It looks like the cycling portion is decisive roughly 40% of the time:

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Old 05-07-22, 10:18 AM
  #38  
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asgelle, GhostRider62 is right ya know. Or are you just trolling for a fight?

https://www.biopac.com/application-n...tness-vo2-max/

Dan
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Old 05-07-22, 04:47 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by _ForceD_ View Post
asgelle, GhostRider62 is right ya know. Or are you just trolling for a fight?

https://www.biopac.com/application-n...tness-vo2-max/

Dan
1. get book
2. get Trainingpeaks
3. do swim coach
4. bike fit by tri/tt fitter
5. Basically follow an 80/20 plan
6. Get a slowtwitch username as Bikeforums is NOT good for this kind of advice
7. Transition is part of the sport, you can lose real time in those! Lock elastic laces, flying bike mounts, and practicing it as part of brick workouts helps.


To address the debate above about vo2max stuff:
Folks can have a high vo2max and a low ftp relative to it as a ratio of their vo2max. Example would be..........long course triathletes.

Single sport folks that need to actually utilize ftp or higher efforts in racing will probably typically have an ftp that's a higher ratio of their vo2max. Time crunched athletes would be like this also, respectable vo2max but their ftp is probably a really high % of it.

If you train ftp a lot, you can get to a point that it's a large % of your vo2max and you will start to stagnate. Then you need more vo2max. Rinse repeat.

So it's not "only" about vo2max. As some of that is who your parents are anyway.

Personal experience doing duathlon stuff:
Personally I feel some multisport folks are deathly afraid of intensity. Like even z2 work is done super barely within z2. When you see an 80/20 plan that's 20% of your workout count is with intensity. The time in zones would be more like 90/10 with 10% being the upper zones. With that, I personally lean a little more towards the upper end of Z2 and even tempo for the "80" part. Then on the "20" part I have been doing just enough zone 5 stuff to keep me honest but doing more in terms of getting in honest time in zones.

I think the error folks make is more in not ramping their CTL and they build too quick. Especially run volume, leading to injury. Ramp the CTL over time.

Other error with 80/20 I see IMO is folks don't periodize it. Instead they try to hit 80/20 every week. Learn what a macro, meso, and micro cycle is. And how to apply that idea to the 80/20 concept.

Lastly, the art of the taper. Folks think tapering is doing less and ramming carbs. It also should lean into more intensity closer to the events. Form isn't useful if you don't use it. The art is knowing how big of a demand an event is in duration or importance to know how long to taper. Tapering too late is probably worse than too soon.

Won our local du with 7min/mi 5k's twice, two 45 sec transitions, and almost a 25mph bike leg on just 7hrs a week combined for both sports. Not 14 total, 7 total. If the run course was flat instead of rolling with a few sections probably closer to 6:45 run splits. The pros in the sprint tri that won pulled 5:45 run splits and 24mph bike legs. If a car didn't hold me up I'd have beaten the tri-course pros on the bike leg, got 2nd fastest on that for the day.
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