magnusr

Hi all,

I'm building a longtail (Xtracycle Leap) from a 1993 GT Timberline and will build new wheels. I'm thinking of using an XL-FDD Sturmey Archer front drum brake. This would keep the cost down compared to a disc brake, as I would otherwise need a new disc ready fork.

However I get mixed information regarding whether or not the drum brake is efficient enough for a heavily loaded cargo bike. Some people praise these brakes while others do the opposite.

It'd be great if you could give me some input on this dilemma.

Cheers Magnus

Nightdiver

It depends on your riding and terrain. If you tend to be a more aggressive rider or if you have any long-ish and/or steep hills to deal with, I'd probably just spring for discs. But if most of your riding will be done with more gentle technique and terrain, then those brakes are likely fine.

Maxwell

The drum brakes I've dealt with (mostly shimano) are barely adequate for front braking on an unloaded town bike, on flat ground. Would not recommend one for a cargo hauler. Cantilevers or v brakes will stop better, even in the rain. Discs are nice, but aren't always more powerful than rim brakes.

Maxwell

Looked into the sturmey archer you mentioned, and it may be better than most. Good enough? I don't know.

lax

I've read that the XL-FDD is strong enough to bend forks if not careful: https://smutpedaller.blogspot.ca/2012/02/sturmey-archer-xl-fdd-x-rd3-review.html. It should work just fine.

magnusr

Yes and I have seen other threads where it is praised for example forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/sturmey-archer-drum-brakes-anyone-138059.html

I will give it a shot and report on my experience here later. This is a year long project though so it will take some time 😊.

Gareth

I use Sturmey Archer 70mm drum brakes exclusively on all the cargo bikes, trikes and quads that I build.

I also use them on Husky dog racing rigs, pony training carts, pedal racing cars, the other pedal power vehicles, and sail carts I build. I now spec them as an option on the trailers I make including the single wheel trailers, but with exception of the new lightweight folding trailers I will bring to the market in the very near future; these will be unbraked.

I have never had a single issue let alone a problem with Sturmey Archer enclosed drum brakes.

Philphine

see if you have a local bike co-op nearby. I've picked up a couple of disc ready forks for projects.

magnusr

Thanks! I just ordered the SA XL-FDD so I'll let you know later in this thread how it holds up.

Gareth

Will you be building the wheel yourself?

magnusr

No, I have a friend that does it for me. Since it is for a cargo bike I will have it built on a Mavic 729 rim with some heavy duty spokes. Any advice on this?

Gareth

Pre-stress the spokes to remove stretch, and ensure the fixed nipples fit the hub flange correctly: you will have to bend them slighty to suit or otherwise spoke fractures and breaks may occur.

magnusr

Thanks! I will use DT Alpine III spokes. Do you have any recommendation on nipples?

Gareth

Use nipple washers if it is practical, and don't for get to lightly lubricate the nipple threads before assembly.

maxants33

Hello - would just like to add my 2 pence

I have a touring bike I am adding an xtracycle extension to also!

I also run front and back sturmey drums - front is the XL-FD.

The 90mm XL-FD on the front is an incredible brake. I love it. Its very responsive and pulls off amazing emergency stops - as good as many disks. Its also completely weather proof.
As for terrain - I cycled down the alps with this brake carrying 160kg (that includes me). Sure it got hot, and there was a slight brake fade after the really steep descents, but it was still responsive and able to stop at sensible distances after some real testing descents.

Other thing is - with a cargo bike using rim brakes is a bad idea. They dont stop all that well under big loads and you really wear out your rims at a much faster rate.

I have found this brake worked with heavy loads where rim brakes and smaller disk brakes have failed.

The main issue is - is your fork strong enough? I have actually bent my fork and have ended up getting a custom tandem fork made with the left blade extra strong. Its a lot of stopping power here to leave to one fork blade. If you can get a tandem blade sourced - then this brake is a perfect match for a cargo bike and durable and reliable enough for touring IMO.

The other issue is that with Sturmey drums, you need to do around 500 miles before the brakes 'bed in'. They are not that great for the first few months until the pads and drum wear in - just good to keep in mind . Do 500 miles with lots of braking, give them a clean and then you wont have to service them again for another year. I must be on about 25000 miles on the XL-FD and its not needed any attention really. I liked it so much I switched the rear hub to the SA X-RDC - not as good but still markedly better than rim brakes - it does seem to improve with time though and I'm now able to do wheel skids even when loaded with 50kg of shopping. The smaller X-RDC does suffer from brake fade bad though on big descents.

I've just joined so I cannot post pictures of my bike - but would love to show it off, also highlight the bent fork

Nightdiver

Thanks for sharing your experience. Any idea what Sturmey does differently from Shimano in their drum brake design? Do they manage the heat through surface area or something?

maxants33

I dont know - I thought Shimano only made Roller brakes - which are radically different internally from drums, but people often get them mixed up - but they do look externally similar. They attach to the left side of the hub like a disk - not the whole hub like a drum. If you have read about this its quite interesting - rollers have a very confusing but clever construction.

Roller brakes are not suitable for downhills - they are internally greased (Drums are always dry inside) and there many reports of the grease catching fire on downhills! I also find them less responsive. They are made of steel while the sturmey drums are made from alloy - so the drums conduct heat much faster away from the braking surface. If you google the XL-FD you will see large alloy flanges which also act a a pretty effective heat sink. There is also a guy online who sells these drums with additional heat sinks bored into them, and these are meant to be very good brakes for downhill.

All that said - If I return to the alps carrying so much stuff again, I will be adding a 3rd brake - just an extra caliper at the back - and keep the rear X-RDC to act a drag brake like on a tandem (there are tandem builders who fit this brake as a 3rd for this purpose).

Other thing I love about drums - only brake I have used that is consistent regardless of how much your carrying - 10kg - 80kg; it does not feel much different

Nightdiver

Thanks! Very interesting. I was just lumping drums and rollers in with each other as I'd always thought they were basically the same. My only experience has been with Shimano and they were not very confidence inspiring. Sounds like Sturmey could be worth future consideration.

fietsbob

S-A Drum brakes I use, have been fine for over 30 years..

GamblerGORD53

My SA XL-FDD has 22,000 miles, including 4,200 on SE Asia tour at 290 lbs. I would say it is fabulous for sure and I wouldn't be using anything else. It never was much at locking the wheel, mostly an ABS brake, but it does still make the rear brake moot. You may as well get the dyno while you are at it. Only needed a bearing change at 17,000, but the cam interface is now getting grooved. They certainly are set and forget, but soupy mud can creep inside. I now also have a 70 mm RD3 on a 584 rim, that does lock the wheel no problem. I actually found them to be gripier when new. Roller brakes are a total farce IMO. A mud caked rim brake is USELESS.

As for the very very BEST build, mine has Dyad rims, Wheelsmith 2.3/2.0 spokes and DT locking nipples. Absolutely NO need for washers or thread lube or stupid eyelet crap rims by Mavic. Pffft
My supposedly tour weight fork was very wobbly and did break 3 times, but it did also have brazeons that likely stressed it poorly 3" from the top. I now have a tandem fork from R + E bikes. I put a 3" CF band where the clamp goes, so it is impossible to crease or crush there.
I actually thought I should have wrapped that first fork entirely in CF to start with, not sure if it would then stress the steer tube though. It certainly does make it hammer proof.

maxants33

Custom tandem forks are the way to go - will probs go R+E for my next fork - they seem well priced and do international shipping. What is a CF band, and how do I use it to make my fork bomb proof!?! Very useful info...

GamblerGORD53

I made a bunch of CF containers and epoxyed some right on the frame. Same with that 3" band. It is wet wrapped 2 layers, that makes it squash proof and distributes the tube bending force of the brake arm clamp holder. And besides that I had to spend 2 days hammering out a DIY steel clamp that needs a hard surface to support it. I have more CF added on than is used to make several whole CF bikes. LOL. You can buy CF kits for small jobs. I also got my fork bent from the set 50 mm to 66 mm rake, for my 70d angle and now perfect 60.5 mm trail.

maxants33

Thanks Gambler, will look into getting one of these kits.

Would just like to add - if the OP is still following this this thread; the brakes work well with the sturmey archer brake levers - even better if you get the brake levers with parking brakes - these are exceptionally useful when manhandling a loaded cargo bike.

fietsbob

the front drum brake torque reaction arm slips into a clamp on band, in my retrofit..

if you are ordering a custom fork your builder can make one brazed on ..

the band slips down, when I remove the wheel, because its a tapered fork blade , were it constant diameter, it would stay in one place.

PaulH

A few years ago, I replaced my Nexus front rollerbrake with a Sturmey unit. It requires much less hand pressure to stop the bike and the reliability and durability are just as good, or better.