Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Utility Cycling
Reload this Page >

X-tra cycle revisited...

Utility Cycling Want to haul groceries, beer, maybe even your kids? You don't have to live car free to put your bike to use as a workhorse. Here's the place to share and learn about the bicycle as a utility vehicle.

X-tra cycle revisited...

Reply

Old 10-06-07, 07:31 AM
  #1  
wahoonc
Membership Not Required
Thread Starter
 
wahoonc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,849

Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
X-tra cycle revisited...

What do you all think of putting an Xtra Cycle on a Raleigh 3 speed? I have been thinking and thinking about this. I know that a MTB is the bike of choice, but I only have one and it isn't very suitable due to the style of drop outs. The Raleigh rear wheels are 40 spoke and bullet proof. The area it is going to be used in is basically flat so super wide gear range is not a necessity and could be upgraded in the future. I have convinced my bride that we could use it in Christmas parade as advertisement for her Bridal shop and it is cheaper than the Bakfiets...that is in the future.

So what do you all think? Doable or back up and regroup?

Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
_Nicodemus

"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
_krazygluon
wahoonc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-07, 12:50 PM
  #2  
donnamb 
tired
 
donnamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,653

Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, U frame

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
They put them on the 8 speed Breezers. Have you emailed those guys from Xtracycle? If no one has ever done it before, they seem like the kind of guys who would be interested in seeing how it works. If they know it won't work, I'm sure they'll tell you.
__________________
"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."
donnamb is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-07, 01:03 PM
  #3  
Nightshade
Humvee of bikes =Worksman
 
Nightshade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
IMO I think t would work OK. My worksman PAV trike is very
heavy as cycles go and even more "very heavy" with my lard
butt 375lbs in the seat with the 3 speed doing just fine thank you.
__________________
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.

Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
Nightshade is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-07, 02:40 PM
  #4  
hotbike
Senior Member
 
hotbike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 3,213

Bikes: a lowrider BMX, a mountain bike, a faired recumbent, and a loaded touring bike

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
The width of the rear dropouts may be a problem.
3 speed is the same width as one speed.
You may need to put washers on the axle, and then the axle might not be long enough.
hotbike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-07, 04:55 PM
  #5  
Allen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I know empirically that they will work with SA-8 speed hubs, NuVinci hubs, and Rohloff hubs. In all cases where an internal hub is used on an XtraCycle I would recommend that a chain tensioner of some sort be used as well. With the extra length, you can have enough chain bounce that the chain can slip over the rear cog's teeth. A tensioner cures that problem.
The tensioner I use with my Xtracycle (currently outfitted with a NuVinci hub) is made by Rohloff. A Surly Singulator or an On-One Doofer would work just as well.
Allen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-07, 05:32 PM
  #6  
mikepoole
procrastinating member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nashville TN
Posts: 202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
I know empirically that they will work with SA-8 speed hubs, NuVinci hubs, and Rohloff hubs. In all cases where an internal hub is used on an XtraCycle I would recommend that a chain tensioner of some sort be used as well. With the extra length, you can have enough chain bounce that the chain can slip over the rear cog's teeth. A tensioner cures that problem.
The tensioner I use with my Xtracycle (currently outfitted with a NuVinci hub) is made by Rohloff. A Surly Singulator or an On-One Doofer would work just as well.
Adding the tensioner would solve the dropout problem on the MTB, wahoonc... is it still the Iguana you're thinking of? Which Raleigh model?
mikepoole is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-07, 06:10 PM
  #7  
wahoonc
Membership Not Required
Thread Starter
 
wahoonc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,849

Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Originally Posted by mikepoole View Post
Adding the tensioner would solve the dropout problem on the MTB, wahoonc... is it still the Iguana you're thinking of? Which Raleigh model?
Mike,
The Iguana has/is being reincarnated as an expedition tour bike (still a potential candidate for the xtra though) I plan on using a 1974 21" ladies frame Raleigh Sports that I forgot I had We are looking for something with a vintage flair for the small town Christmas parade. I wanted a Bakfiets but the CFO of the Bridal shop put the stop to that when she found out how much they cost I wanted one of those old India built cycle rickshaws but they are around a grand by the time I get one here. I have a couple of options on the axle length for the SA hub. They made axles up to around 6.25" so I got that covered with spacers. The fun part will be the cable and finding anti rotation washers in the correct size for the dropouts. They have been on backorder for quite a while...may have to make my own.

Donna...sent them an email to see what they think. But being the weekend they are hopefully out having fun

Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
_Nicodemus

"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
_krazygluon
wahoonc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-07, 01:10 AM
  #8  
mikepoole
procrastinating member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nashville TN
Posts: 202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
Mike,
The Iguana has/is being reincarnated as an expedition tour bike (still a potential candidate for the xtra though) I plan on using a 1974 21" ladies frame Raleigh Sports that I forgot I had We are looking for something with a vintage flair for the small town Christmas parade. I wanted a Bakfiets but the CFO of the Bridal shop put the stop to that when she found out how much they cost I wanted one of those old India built cycle rickshaws but they are around a grand by the time I get one here. I have a couple of options on the axle length for the SA hub. They made axles up to around 6.25" so I got that covered with spacers. The fun part will be the cable and finding anti rotation washers in the correct size for the dropouts. They have been on backorder for quite a while...may have to make my own.
Aaron
I would think the gearing would be OK since you're mostly flat...

It may not be a problem with your Sports, but my 22" '74 lady's frame DL-1/Tourist is just too darn flexy to think about adding an xtra, even if the wheels would fit... I have a front basket & rear baskets for the grocery-getting & regularly load up with a good bit of weight- the ride is fine but there is definitely a lot of frame twisting going on.
mikepoole is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-07, 04:48 AM
  #9  
Sammyboy
The Legitimiser
 
Sammyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 4,846

Bikes: Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
All I can contribute is that in rolling country, on a fully loaded tandem, 3 speeds starts not to be enough. On the flat, it's fine.
Sammyboy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-07, 05:32 AM
  #10  
johann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
I know empirically that they will work with SA-8 speed hubs, NuVinci hubs, and Rohloff hubs. In all cases where an internal hub is used on an XtraCycle I would recommend that a chain tensioner of some sort be used as well.
This hasn't been a problem for my internal hubbed xtracycle. The shop that installed it had put on a chain tensioner. I pointed out that all they had to do was take up the slack by sliding the Xtracycle backwards in the bike frame's horizontal drops. They said "oh... yeah".
johann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-07, 05:35 AM
  #11  
johann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
What do you all think of putting an Xtra Cycle on a Raleigh 3 speed?
I had heard about some issues with installing the 700c Xtracycle, maybe something with tire clearance, don't know for sure. A visit to the Xtracycle home page and the community forum should clear up a lot of quetions.
johann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-07, 08:03 AM
  #12  
legot73
meep!
 
legot73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 616

Bikes: 2006 Kona Jake, 2005 Giant Lite Xtracycle, 2004 Trek L200, 1997 Specialized RockHopper FS, 1989 Trek 950

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am not able to use a SRAM P5 internal hub on the X. Although I can get it mounted and spaced, the shifting mechanism is inside the axle and doesn't function correctly when the axle can't protrude enough from beyond the dropout. If your 3-speed works on a 135 o.l.d. mountain bike frame, it will be fine on the X, however.

In my search for an alternate rear wheel setup, I considered the Nexus 3 wheels that Nashbar had for a while, but passed. Although a 3-speed with good range is fine for most riding, it isn't sufficient for a load of passenger or big stuff, which is what I intend to use it for.

That said, I'm finding that any 7+ speed setup is at least $200-300 to build a wheel. For that price, I'm seriously considering picking up a severely marked down Novara Transfer as a donor bike.
__________________
Nothing says "in good times and in bad" like a good pair of fenders
legot73 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-07, 11:28 AM
  #13  
Allen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Originally Posted by johann View Post
This hasn't been a problem for my internal hubbed xtracycle. The shop that installed it had put on a chain tensioner. I pointed out that all they had to do was take up the slack by sliding the Xtracycle backwards in the bike frame's horizontal drops. They said "oh... yeah".
My frame has horizontal drops but I still had chain bounce issues. On smooth roads it was ok, but I would still have the occasional slip. It can cause damage to your hub, so I took the better safe than sorry route.
Allen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-07, 11:15 AM
  #14  
joelpalmer
Back after a long absence
 
joelpalmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bay Area CA
Posts: 603

Bikes: 1974 Schwinn Speedster 3-speed, Raleigh Super Course

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by donnamb View Post
They put them on the 8 speed Breezers. Have you emailed those guys from Xtracycle? If no one has ever done it before, they seem like the kind of guys who would be interested in seeing how it works. If they know it won't work, I'm sure they'll tell you.
I actually checked with them about this (for the Schwinn in my sig) a few months back. Reply indicated that it has been done and the only issues involve fitting the parts on, which are the same as with any other bike and they are ready and willing to provide any and all assistance needed.
joelpalmer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-07, 07:59 PM
  #15  
Serge Simpson
aka Buddha Knuckle
 
Serge Simpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3

Bikes: 1989 Nishiki Cascade tourer, 1998 GF Aquila singlespeed, 198? Dave Tesch built John Howard fixie, 197? Schwinn 3 spd, 2007 Swift folder fixie

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Fantastic! My question exactly, only I have an old Schwinn 3 spd. The spacing on the SA 3 spd hubs is 120mm, while modern mtb hubs are 135mm wide. I'm sure you could tinker and finagle to get the wheel fitted. I suppose you could simply put a standard 26" or 700c rear wheel on the free-radical instead. Who would know the difference? The bit that makes me doubt the suitability of using an old 3 spd for this kind of application is braking performance. I don't know about your Raleigh, but the side-pulls on my Schwinn are essentially tits-on-a-bull.
Serge Simpson is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-07, 07:47 AM
  #16  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 18,589

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 369 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1312 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Serge Simpson View Post
Fantastic! My question exactly, only I have an old Schwinn 3 spd. The spacing on the SA 3 spd hubs is 120mm, while modern mtb hubs are 135mm wide. I'm sure you could tinker and finagle to get the wheel fitted. I suppose you could simply put a standard 26" or 700c rear wheel on the free-radical instead. Who would know the difference? The bit that makes me doubt the suitability of using an old 3 spd for this kind of application is braking performance. I don't know about your Raleigh, but the side-pulls on my Schwinn are essentially tits-on-a-bull.
Good point about the brakes. Big old caliper brakes on steel rims in the rain with a heavy load on the back would be an accident waiting to happen.

I'm sure you could put an extracycle on an old three speed if you wanted to... but I think the correct answer is that you wouldn't want to. Get an old MTB, preferably out of the trash (I have found three in the last year alone) or Craigslist or something. The Xtracycle is a bit of an investment, but the bike doesn't have to be; and if you like the xtracycle, and don't like the bike, you can always upgrade the bike.
rhm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-07, 09:08 PM
  #17  
Sirrus Rider
Velocommuter Commando
 
Sirrus Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,646

Bikes: '88 Specialized Sirrus, '89 Alpine Monitor Pass, two '70 Raligh Twenties, '07 Schwinn Town & Country Trike, '07 Specialized Sirrus Hybrid

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
I'd have to think it would be theoretically possible to mount the Xtra-cycle to a three speed if you had nothing else and money to burn. You would have to address the shortcomings starting with braking. I can think of two different ways of addressing the problem.. New alloy rims (if you can find them!) in the right size with koolstops all round or replace the hubs with a Sturmey-Archer X-FDD in the front and a new drum brake 3-speed rear hub.

Second, you'd have drop the tall gearing which I need not embellish on how as it's spelled out in a number of posts on three speeds all over this site..

Like I said this sort of thing is more of a giggles and grins exercise as the end result would work, but a newer bike would be more capable.. It's been said before.. with enough money you can get a barn door to fly..
Sirrus Rider is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-07, 04:47 PM
  #18  
BAH
Senior Member
 
BAH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Centralia, WA
Posts: 552

Bikes: xtracycle

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
What do you all think of putting an Xtra Cycle on a Raleigh 3 speed? I have been thinking and thinking about this. I know that a MTB is the bike of choice, but I only have one and it isn't very suitable due to the style of drop outs. The Raleigh rear wheels are 40 spoke and bullet proof. The area it is going to be used in is basically flat so super wide gear range is not a necessity and could be upgraded in the future. I have convinced my bride that we could use it in Christmas parade as advertisement for her Bridal shop and it is cheaper than the Bakfiets...that is in the future.

So what do you all think? Doable or back up and regroup?

Aaron
I'd say very doable. We have 2 3 speed cruiser xtracycles and they fit our needs very well. I don't know mechanical specifics, but having an xtracycle on a cruiser is great fun(especially on flatter ground)!
BAH is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-07, 07:59 AM
  #19  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 18,589

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 369 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1312 Post(s)
Originally Posted by BAH View Post
I'd say very doable. We have 2 3 speed cruiser xtracycles and they fit our needs very well. I don't know mechanical specifics, but having an xtracycle on a cruiser is great fun(especially on flatter ground)!
Yes, but a cruiser has the same wheel size as an MTB (26 x decimal), which means the brake studs of the xtracycle match the rims. Raleigh three speeds and similar old European 'lightweight' bikes have a different wheel size (26 x fractional). Does anyone know how the brakes work with that rim size?
rhm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-07, 12:45 AM
  #20  
jimisnowhere
Senior Member
 
jimisnowhere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lynn, MA
Posts: 472

Bikes: 60's lowrider, 80's Cavaletto Centurion, 94 Specialized Rockhopper sport

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry but custom work on an old Raleigh 3 speed is a disaster. Parts are all proprietary and hard to find, and in the end you'll have something that could of been done easier and better with an old mountain bike. Three speeds rock, but only if left as it was engineered.

Before you try this make sure you can find a shifter cable that will reach all the way. Also if you do gear it down like Sirrus Rider says remember its a cottered crank and will need to be replaced, which means it needs a spindle size only Sheldon Brown sells, the new spindle may not fit in your old BB and you may need a new BB. Then you'll need a crank and chain ring to boot. Next, I hope your steel wheels will hold up well. Otherwise you'll need to find more used wheels that will also ultimately fade. Or you can buy 26 X 1 3/4 rims and go for a handmade aluminum set, which will be expensive. Steel wheels won't stop in the rain, never mind stopping a loaded extra cycle.

I'd stay away from converting the three speed, set up a mountain bike frame using a new age 3 speed hub, then dress it like an old Raliegh. Something like that would work well, last long and be fun to set up. I'm not knocking the 3 speed, but I once hit a dead end trying to upgrade mine, after three months of fighting I put all the old parts back on, bought new wheels and gave it a BIG basket. It costs less to get an old Specialized stumpjumper and convert that.
jimisnowhere is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-07, 10:01 AM
  #21  
Serge Simpson
aka Buddha Knuckle
 
Serge Simpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3

Bikes: 1989 Nishiki Cascade tourer, 1998 GF Aquila singlespeed, 198? Dave Tesch built John Howard fixie, 197? Schwinn 3 spd, 2007 Swift folder fixie

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Jimisnowhere,

I am in full agreement with you on so many points you just made, but I think it is possible to reduce gearing by replacing the cog on the hub and leaving the crank alone...not that I've ever tried it.
Serge Simpson is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-07, 10:23 AM
  #22  
divingbiker
red bikes rule!
 
divingbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD suburb of Washington, DC
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK, similar question, different bike.

How much fiddling would I (or the LBS) have to do to a 1986 Bridgestone 300 mixte to make it functional as an xtracycle? It's got 27" wheels right now.

Is it worth it?

Thanks!

Janice
divingbiker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-07, 12:30 PM
  #23  
cerewa
put our Heads Together
 
cerewa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: southeast pennsylvania
Posts: 3,155

Bikes: a mountain bike with a cargo box on the back and aero bars on the front. an old well-worn dahon folding bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Raleigh three speeds and similar old European 'lightweight' bikes have a different wheel size (26 x fractional). Does anyone know how the brakes work with that rim size?
I tried to convert an old raleigh 3 speed from 26 x fractional to standard 26 x decimal (559mm rims) ATB wheels. The brakes were no problem: I just had to adjust the position of the pads on their calipers.

My problem with it was that there was no way to switch the chainring without also getting rid of the (cottered) right crank. I don't mess with cottered cranks. If you just want lower gearing I don't see why you couldn't put on a longer chain and bigger rear cog.
cerewa is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service