Tougher wheels?
 

Did a major grocery run yesterday. Blew a number of spokes. My wheel is not low spoke count or anything like that. What can I do to find wheels that I don't need to replace the spokes on regularly?

Please describe the wheels you are talking about. Are you talking about wheels on the bike or on the trailer? What size rims and how many spokes?

Once you break two or three spokes, your wheel has no hope. That's because the breakages are caused by metal fatigue, and you are sure to break more spokes. The solution to this is to rebuild the wheel with all new spokes. Replacing them one at a time will not do the trick. The completed wheel should have high and even tension.

Im with noglider on this one, you'd have to discribe what type of wheels?
You have to remember that ordinary bike wheels on a trailer are not designed to take heavy loads.

If it is trailer wheels your looking for, you may want to invest in a pair of Skyways Utility Wheels.

http://www.skywaywheels.com/graphics/pic_UT16_New.jpg

SKYWAY'S Utility Wheels page.
http://www.skywaywheels.com/products_005.htm

Regards
Tom

I don't use a trailer, I use an Xtracycle; the wheel in question was my rear bike wheel, a 7 speed freewheel 26" MTB wheel with studded tires.

I'd have a 36 spoke wheel built up on one of Velocity's toughest rims on a Shimano hub, Lx or Dx or Xt.

Call Velocity USA and they will suggest something that will work for you.

If you have a good bike shop, they can build it up for you. Should go without saying you want top quality spokes,
beefy ones.

You also might consider a larger tire.

Sounds like it needs to be rebuilt. If the components are lower quality you might just buy a new wheel. If it's not hand built have a wheel builder re-tension it for you. Machine built wheels never last.

You, probably need to check your spoke tension now and then. If a spoke becomes loose it will start flexing and eventually break. Once one breaks the wheel goes out of round and other spokes start to flex. If keeping them tight does not prevent them breaking, you will need to go to heavier gaige spokes.

I have found that the lower quality wheels (mass produced) are the problem. A properly hand built wheel will last much longer and usually with less attention than the machine built ones. One key component is proper tensioning. You can rework a machine built wheel, but by the time you get done you will be close to the cost of a decent handbuilt one, if not more.

Aaron:)

Millions of cycists riding around on them would beg to differ. As long as you check the true and tension every once in a while there is nothing wrong with machine built wheels. Not everyone can justify spending the $$$ to have a quality wheel builder make something from scratch.

I build my own wheels, but a machine built wheel using good components is better quality. That is because all the spokes are tensioned to an exact torque figure at the same time. There is no way you can do that by hand. However, most machine built wheels use the cheapest components and are not good quality, not because they are machine built, but because they are cheap wheels.

Of course, if the robot goes wacko, you can get an awful lot of bad wheels before someone notices.

Yeah, machine built wheels work fine as long as someone competent (or even semi-competent) goes through it.

They will work for awhile if you just throw 'em on your bike and ride. They just won't last in that case.

I suspect that hand-built wheels account for far less than 1% of bike wheels on the road.

Most of these machine built wheels last for many years.

To answer your question, I'd find a craigslist ad for a set of Tandem wheels built on a 48 hole hub, and have them gone over at the local bike shop (retensioned/straightened), or buy a 40 hole hub (Raleigh rear wheels once used 40 hole hubs on the rear) and build it with a new (alloy) rim, from Peter White. If you break spokes they will guarantee the wheel for you, if you haven't misused it. Make sure these are the widest/wheels and tires that will fit your frame and/or fork, and mount a good quality fat tire on them. The fat tire absorbs most bumps, which cause much cycling of the load on your spokes. Not to mention if your tires are low volume, be sure that you are not exceeding the load rating of the tires. Sure, heavier gage spokes are good, but more of them are even better, and a great tire is best. Oh, and go to a smaller rim if spokes are breaking regularly. Going down a size makes the same number of spokes stronger, 10% is the usual guesstimate. (700/29" to 26", 26 -24, 24 -20, 20 -16).

ok, made it here. Do you have a budget? I would guess a stock mtn wheel with a 7spd freewheel and that load has already bent the axle so you're looking at a new wheel. I see two routes out of this. The one mentioned above, a custom rim with heaviest box rim available which can cover a big price range according to the hub used. Or a cheap steel wheel with 11g spokes and another freewheel. I don't think stock machine made 26" wheels are worth the money given the heavy loads you're working with even with constant attention and care as you've got up to 250lbs static weight sitting on the wheel which turns into something else on a descent and skidding turn.

Call up the custom builders and tell them exactly what you're doing and if you can't afford $350+ rear wheel ask them what's the cheapest option possible. You wouldn't be the first person with a budget looking for a solution.

here we go, cheap wheels, thick axle and maybe you can reuse your old freewheel. I'd go over the rear wheel or have a shop do it if you aren't familiar.

http://yubaride.com/yubashop/34-util...wheel-set.html

Or just buy the rear wheel for $75?

http://yubaride.com/yubashop/32-carg...cle-wheel.html

600 KG load, that ought to tote anyone with enough wind to actually pull the weight.

Easiest is to just have a local bike shop build you a wheel themselves--order the specific hub you want (or re-use what you have), pick the (good) spokes and the (downhill) rim separately, so you know they can't order it already (machine) built.

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Alternately you could build a wheel and use some of the 11ga spokes, as on the Worksman industrial bikes. The spokes can be bought separately from Worksman; they look like moped spokes, about twice as thick as regular spokes. Far thicker than anything a normal bike shop will have. These are for 26" wheels and you will need to drill out the spoke holes in the rim and hub flanges.

There are people who have put pretty fierce 10-15 HP engines on motorized bikes using these spokes, and they still rarely break.
Other parts will break, but the spokes themselves don't.
~

??In my hand-built wheels, I have never touched any spoke. When I rode on cheap machine-built wheels, I had to change those wheels about every 2 years, in spite of adjustments. Even bringing them to a bike shop for adjustments did not help, because spokes ripping through cheap rims cannot be stopped. My first hand-built wheel has been now ridden nearly every day for 8 years under heavy load over rough surfaces. I would be throwing away money going for the cheap stuff. Millions of riders around the world buy throw-away bicycles and ride them until they cannot be ridden anymore, upon which they get more of the same. I prefer to invest in equipment that lasts, yields trouble-free operation and requires minimal maintenance. Over a short time, it is certainly more expensive, but not over long.

FYI, the rear axle is 14mm, thicker than normal.

baker

simply use a DH wheelset.
currently I'm using XT hubs laced to WTB LaserDisc DH, 36h 4 cross, brass nipples

Your point is that cheap machine built wheels are not as good as expensive hand built wheels? Why not compare cheap hand built wheels to expensive machine built wheels? $20 wheels are not as good as $100 wheels, unless you paid $100 for $20 wheels thinking the price is what counts. I will stick to my statement that everything else being equal the robot built wheel will be a better wheel. The machine built wheels on my Bianchi which is now old enough to vote, and spent its first few years as a serious year round commuter, are still spinning.

And, millions of riders around the world buy throw away bicycles because we live in a throw away society. That is another issue entirely.

I am unaware of there being machine-built wheels meeting my constraints, when I was ordering them, so the issue of hand-built vs machine as such has been largely moot for me. Knowing how materials behave, in a configuration such as a wheel, I would not be surprised by the best hand-build wheels being better than machine. Cheap wheels on the market are machine built and, for me, are pretty senseless in exploitation, after having compared them to the expensive hand-built wheels, and this was my major point.

I am unaware of data on this direction of superiority and have not heard such a claim before. My wheels are not likely to last as long as yours because of the rim wear, which may be one indicator of how much more beating mine get than yours. In this context, the time length in isolation might not be an absolute indicator of wheel durability.

The poster has used the millions as an argument for the value of machine-built wheels that, in the mass, are cheap. Those millions, nearly exclusively, never adjust their wheels nor care much for the quality of what they buy. The very fact that you need to adjust the wheel points to the wheel's mediocrity. I do know how much more precision I need to put into this point, that is well integrated with this discussion.

if you can sit down and build your own wheels
and actually know what you are doing...
its pretty easy to build a nice set

wheelsets vary to a huge degree
there are some awesome machine built wheels out there

quality control

Yes, handbuilt wheels are better. However, the point remains that machine built wheels are adequate for most people. No one could seriously propose for everyone on the planet to switch to handbuilt wheels. Ain't gonna happen.