audiisaac

I am a completing my final semester in the Industrial Design department at the Rhode Island School of Design (RISD) with a project geared around moving awkward objects around an urban environment via bicycle. I feel that the need for a vehicle to transport objects that cannot be comfortably carried in a backpack around a city is sorely need now and will be a vital part of a greener and healthier future.
The first part of this project is to define the user group, and what the primary use of the bike will be. This could encompass a few different users from bicycle enthusiasts who wish to use their bicycles for more than just riding, to students with out cars, to a delivery business. I feel that each type of user would want a different type of vehicle, which is why starting with who will use this bike is so important. The main user groups that I am targeting at the moment are enthusiasts who wish to commute by bicycle and carry more than what will fin in backpack, or don’t wish to use a bag, but don’t have an ideal method to do so, or towards a more commercial direction for in town deliveries. For me, this means a completely integrated cycle that is comfortable and easy to ride in all weather and times of day.
The scope of this project can range from simple racks to a purpose built Cycle Truck, or to an integrated commuter bicycle with an above average cargo capacity. I would like your help to establish the type of person that would be interested in using a bicycle like this. I would love responses here on the forum and posted the first of a series online surveys here: https://www.quibblo.com/quiz/bIB8LuY/Cargo-bicycle

tatfiend 

Take a look at what has already been done. No point in reinventing what is already available or has proved unsuccessful in the market place.

Current available options readily available in the USA are longtail bikes like the Surly Big Dummy, Yuba Mundo, Kona Ute and Xtracycle bikes and conversion kits. Also investigate "Bakfiets" and "Long John bicycle" as well as "Porteur Bicycle". Another thing to look at is the "TerraCycle Cargo Monster". Google is your friend here.

For truly heavy loads a 3 or 4 wheel arrangement may well be desirable for stability and ease of loading and unloading. Take a look at Worksman Cycles for examples. Also search the term "industrial bikes".

The rootsradicals Yahoo group has over 1000 members and primarily supports the Xtracycle and accessory compatible Surly Big Dummy bikes. it has a lot of discussion of bike uses by members.

https://groups.yahoo.com/group/rootsradicals/

squirtdad

I would read a lot of different threads in this forum to start

I would recommend that you define certain categories (you kinda of have above in the text) and then focus on one as everone definition of utiliyt is different.

maybe:

Utility
Heavy utility
Cargo
short commute
Long commute

My utility bike is simply a bike that lets me carry some cargo (rack, wald folding baskets) just get on and ride (platform pedals, but I can do clipless), ride in most conditions (fenders, lights), so I can "do" things with the bike not just ride for fun or fitness (nothing wrong withh that). in the categories I listed it would be a utility/short commute bike. Additionally the bike has to be maintainable.

Other peoples utility (Heavy utility??) mean a larger load and possibly passenger capacity (extracycle, big dummy, etc)

Other people are cargo (look at posts by qmsdc15)



Other

audiisaac

Thank you for your response, I am well aware of what is currently available on the market and think that there are many viable solutions, some of which could be improved upon via design, materials, and construction. I am looking to expand upon what is available but cater to a more specific user.

crackerdog

Have ridden a big dummy or Xtracycle? They fit the outline of your original post, try one, you'll be surprised. How do you plan to cater to a more specific user? You will have to describe this user if you want more useful suggestions.

audiisaac

Thanks for the replies, I know that I am being vague, I am not sure yet what I am going to build. My goal with this post was to start a conversation about what people would want to haul and which tool to use to get the job done. I know that there are tons of different options as to what style cargo are available. The root of my question is why did you choose a certain type of system. In my servery I attempted to get an idea as to how people use their utility bikes to inform my designs and continue the conversation here. I would like to know why some people don't want to use a trailer and others do for instance.

Artkansas 

Well, it's a long story that began here. My first bike, also my first utility bike.



After that came rear Wald baskets in addition to the front basket.

As a teen I shifted to a backpack because you couldn't load your slim 10 speed with a set of Wald baskets, and the backpack came into class more easily.

For many years, I did with backpacks and Pletcher style racks with the big claw. You can carry a surprising amount with those. Once I carried enough wood and parts to build a camera dolly during my film making classes.

Then as a bicycle advocate, I got a Bikes At Work 64 AW trailer.


Much of it was for demonstration purposes, to show people what was possible. I don't need that much trailer that often.

But what changed my style for smaller loads was Kroger stores. Most of their stores locally, will not allow backpacks. So I opted for a pair of Sunlite Grocery Getter panniers and some non-Pletcher style racks. That has had the benefit that in addition to allowing me to shop for groceries at all, they have twice the load capacity of my largest backpack, so I can shop less frequently.

SlimAgainSoon

If you are asking to what utility uses we might put our bikes, for me that would be runs to the grocery store.

That's more than I could carry with even the largest of backpacks. I've got to have racks and baskets or panniers or some other means of hauling home the goodies.

squirtdad

[QUOTE=audiisaac;10487057]Thanks for the replies, I know that I am being vague, I am not sure yet what I am going to build. My goal with this post was to start a conversation about what people would want to haul and which tool to use to get the job done. QUOTE]

ok here is my close to perfect utiliyt bike (for me and my needes)

Needs: Ability to just throw a leg over and go, need to use clipless when I want, carry stuff, not get mud splatter, safe in dark, comfortable, not worry too much about the bike...just use it (but I like to fiddle)

What I use it for
Commute to work (short commute 5 miles each way.....over 8 miles I use a more road bike)
Go places.. basket ball court, club, friends
Errands where I need to carry something (extension of go places ) library, video, yogurt, bike shop, hardware store, drugstore, take out food,etc
Hauling: groceries(two grocery bags, plus stuff starpped to rack), sons backpack when we commute together, my laptop for work, bags of potting soil.

I am not car free and am not looking to haul huge loads, my goal is a bike that allows me to do a high percentage of errands and hauling that I would other wise use a car for and a bike that I can just get on and go and enjoy.

your will note that the bike looks a lot like an 'english 3 speed" there is a reason...form follows function.

So this is for me and I believe would really cover 95% of people who would due utility biking, not taking away anything from extacyles etc, but I just feel this type of bike is more in tune with what people who don't do utiliyt bking now would/could really do.

cman

Your project is exactly how the Xtracycle was created. Here is an interview with John Fabel who was Ross Evans professor at the time. https://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/2010-n...sylvan-cycles/

I actually helped design the original XtraCycle. Ross Evans was one of my students when I taught design at Hampshire College. It began as a student project on bike trailers. The original conception came out of conversations we had back and forth about how could you make a bike trailer for places like Nicaragua. In Nicaragua, if you didn’t have a pick up truck, and you rode your bike, it was considered that you were too poor to have a pick up. But you still had to get your stuff to market. What if you could make a way of carrying stuff on a bike that was so just cool that it was a cool thing to do. Out of that conversation came the notion of not so much a bike trailer but the Xtracycle that turns your bike into this really cool trailer. He ran with it from there. I worked with him to design the original bag system which was made in the shop that is producing the Sylvan now.

My utility bike is a Xtracycle. It allows me to drop the kids off at school, buy a bike from craigslist to haul home and return the bandsaw that I borrowed from a friend.

audiisaac

Here is my current idea, but as I read more i seems that the real need is for a commuter bicycle that can carry a small load easily.
Bicycle

Integrated Fenders
Clearance for 32mm tires
Disk brakes
Dyno front hub
Wired front and rear lights
Smaller wheels? 26” (for a 58cm-60cm frame), or 20”
Or 700c/26” rear, 20” front
Large Front and small rear rack
Quick but stable geometry
Trailer hook up integrated into rear rack and fender
Aluminum frame?
Steel frame?



Drive train
Shimano xt 3x9
Shimano IGH with belt drive
Rolholf with belt drive

Trailer
Same material as frame
Two 20” wheels
Either:
Cannonade Lefty hubs
Wheelchair hubs
14mm BMX hubs
No wider than 32”
An extension arm to be able to carry 8’ 2x4s
Open frame?
Closed box?
The goal of this combination is to have a bicycle that excels as a commuter bike being both safe and fun to ride and be able to easily and safely haul a load. The racks that are integrated into the front would allow for a quick trip to the store on the way home or could be used to move a small package to the post office, The trailer could be hooked up when a large load needed to be transported, and would be stored when not in use. I expect the capacity to be 4-6 cubic feet and have a foot print about 30”x48”. There would be a additional arm that could be attached to the trailer to make it longer to carry things up to 8”-10” with a small amount of rear over hang.

purplepeople

Some advice...

The bike should have clearance for 2.5" tires as large casings are the easiest way to smooth out a ride when loaded down. The smaller the tire, the more likely it will pinch flat under load.

The farther from the axle you place the trailer hitch, the more likely a tongue load on the trailer will have a negative effect on the handling. Any downward force on the hitch will impart a lifting force to the front wheel, with the rear wheel as the pivot point. And this is why most commercial trailers have a hitch that mounts to the left side of the rear axle.

Stick with chain... the torque requirements for a heavy trailer load can easily match that of a tandem fully loaded for touring.

At 32" wide, that trailer will not fit through most doorways... it assumes the owner has access to a garage.

:)ensen.

Elkhound

I don't like to use a backpack. A backpack raises your center of gravity and therefore makes you less stable on two wheels. Furthermore, in the summer it is very hot and uncomfortable.

audiisaac

Thank you for the response, I plan to use large volume tires to help smooth out the ride, I was thinking around 1.5" to 1.75", I don't know if I will go all the way to 2.5". That is a good point about the hitch....

Artkansas 

Just my preferences, but I really don't like loading the front wheel too much. It makes it harder to steer or make quick changes in direction.

I love a backpack though. Since it is so close to my own center of gravity, I've rarely noticed any problem, unless I have a full camping backpack with internal frame.

With my trailer, I've noticed that I have to watch out for heel strike on the hitch. That can hurt when a trailer with 300 lbs moves into your heel just before it leaves the ground to get onto the pedal.

squirtdad

I just thougt of a smaller than whole bike project that might fly

As much as like my wald folding baskets there are time I would like something more weather proof.

A project might be an integrated rack/riigid pannier/saddle bag system (think bmw motorcycle)

It could be designed with featurs like (in no order, just throwing out)

Locking
Weather proof
outfitting for secure, padded labtop tranposrt
Rigid, but expandable (like a tent trrailer)
panniers, integrate with rack so the whole top of rack/panniers is a load carry survace
built in retractible load carrying system
built in retractible cable or lock
rear blinkies with wire less turn signals
integrated kick stand
reflective from all angles

challenges would be making it durable with light weight........among others

fotooutdoors

Just a thought-I would keep both wheels the same diameter. Forgetting the right size of tube (because you need to carry 2) is a show-stopper for bikes. Keep the parts simple and somewhat standard (ie-easily replaceable). My $0.02

Fat Tire

I'd vote for a 20" front wheel if the front rack is expected to carry much weight or maybe 2@ 16" wheels, so the load would be lower. I'd like to see fenders on it that would accommodate 65mm tires, and an 8 speed hub. (Mostly because my Torker runs out of steam with only 3 gears, unless I am really loaded.) There are some good ideas on the Surly Pugsley too. (Both front and rear use the same width hubs, 4 inch wide tires, and that sort of thing.) Yes, more ideas make it more expensive, but then, by observation, less ideas make it more expensive too.

tatfiend 

If designing for front loads keep the front end geometry in mind. French Porteur and Randonneur bikes were designed with relatively short trail and large rake by today's bike standards to allow better handling and control with heavy front rack carried loads.

I chose a Surly Big Dummy as my cargo bike after using a regular bike with rear rack and shopping panniers for about 6 months. I did not care for the high center of gravity and rearward weight bias with two full bags of groceries. My primary cargo hauling is groceries but I have hauled another bicycle and miscellaneous hardware store items too with the Big Dummy. For added versatility I will be getting the wide loaders too. I like the modularity and versatility of the Xtracycle accessories system which fits the Big Dummy.

I tend to agree that different size wheels could be a PITA as far as carrying spares is concerned. Also a small wheel is more sensitive to road irregularities.

The trailer hookup sounds like it might be too high and far back. A trailer connection should be no further back than the rear axle to prevent lightening up the front end with a load near the front of the trailer. You cannot count on everyone knowing how to properly load a trailer for minimum effect on the bike's handling.

To help control initial cost make the lighting system optional as good ones are not cheap.

Design the frame for multiple drive system capability. An eccentric bottom bracket that takes standard spindles as is used on the Steelwool Tweed might be worthwhile. Add a split seatstay and the frame can handle IGH with chain or belt drive or a derailleur drivetrain. I am not sure about wholesale prices but currently at retail belt drive parts for a bike run over $300 if using the Gates components. XT level Shimano is not inexpensive either.

One thing to determine is your aimed for retail price as this will help determine what you can affordably do. The higher the price the more limited the market. I suspect that there is a reason why current Longtail bikes other than the Big Dummy are priced in the under $1000 range. Above that level it is likely that you narrow the potential market by a lot. Any successful design needs to determine retail price goals up front. It is fun to try and design an ideal system but real world costs need to be considered too.