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solid tires

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Old 05-26-12, 09:39 AM
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salek
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solid tires

I do not like the fact that the BD came with presta valves. I am considering either drilling out the rims for schrader or buying the "solids" that I discovered on a different thread.
The concerns are twofold:
Can the "solids" survive the weight without crushing down?
Will they last long enough to be worth the purchase?

So really, the questions are for anybody with "solids" experience that could provide an idea of cost/benefit ratios.

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Old 05-26-12, 09:59 AM
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There are foam captive air tires, solid but for the bubbles in the foam .

industrial shops use them because of all the metal chips on the floor
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Old 05-27-12, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by salek View Post
I do not like the fact that the BD came with presta valves. I am considering either drilling out the rims for schrader or buying the "solids" that I discovered on a different thread.
The concerns are twofold:
Can the "solids" survive the weight without crushing down?
Will they last long enough to be worth the purchase?

So really, the questions are for anybody with "solids" experience that could provide an idea of cost/benefit ratios.

Salek
The pneumatic tire was the greatest advance for the modern bicycle. Don't get rid of them because you prefer a different valve. Drilling the rims is easy. Takes 3 mins.
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Old 05-27-12, 11:49 AM
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+1

From Saint Sheldon,

http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#airless

Airless Tires
Of all the inventions that came out of the bicycle industry, probably none is as important and useful as Dr. Dunlop's pneumatic tire.

Airless tires have been obsolete for over a century, but crackpot "inventors" keep trying to bring them back. They are heavy, slow and give a harsh ride. They are also likely to cause wheel damage, due to their poor cushioning ability. A pneumatic tire uses all of the air in the whole tube as a shock absorber, while foam-type "airless" tires/tubes only use the air in the immediate area of impact.

Pneumatic tires require pumping up from time to time, and can go flat, but their advantages overwhelm these difficulties.

Airless tire schemes have also been used by con artists to gull unsuspecting investors. My advice is to avoid this long-obsolete system.
Even a combination of Mr. Tuffy/slime/heavy tire will ride better than an airless tire.
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Old 05-27-12, 11:52 AM
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What's wrong with presta valves? If you want to use an air compressor, the adaptor that you can screw on is like $2. $4 will get you one for each wheel that you can leave on full time and you're good to go. No drilling, no muss, no fuss.
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Old 05-27-12, 02:02 PM
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Hutchinson just announced a breakthrough solid tire that is supposed to ride like air. We'll see.

http://www.hutchinsontires.com/en/a_la_une.php?id=221
http://www.popsci.com/bown/2010/prod...inson-serenity
http://urbanvelo.org/hutchinson-sere...f-tire-system/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tOThBxjjCg

They have apparently worked out the issue of shock distribution throughout the tire which was the #1 drawback of solid tires versus pneumatic. I'm definitely interested. I'll gladly trade increased weight for no flats and not having to carry a pump and spare tubes around.

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Old 05-27-12, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by himespau:14278070
What's wrong with presta valves? If you want to use an air compressor, the adaptor that you can screw on is like $2. $4 will get you one for each wheel that you can leave on full time and you're good to go. No drilling, no muss, no fuss.
+1 on the adapters. I prefer presta but keep an adapter in a saddlebag for potential emergencies, e.g. busted minipump.
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Old 05-27-12, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamDZ View Post
Hutchinson just announced a breakthrough solid tire that is supposed to ride like air. We'll see.

http://www.hutchinsontires.com/en/a_la_une.php?id=221
http://www.popsci.com/bown/2010/prod...inson-serenity
http://urbanvelo.org/hutchinson-sere...f-tire-system/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tOThBxjjCg

They have apparently worked out the issue of shock distribution throughout the tire which was the #1 drawback of solid tires versus pneumatic. I'm definitely interested. I'll gladly trade increased weight for no flats and not having to carry a pump and spare tubes around.
I would happily go for something like this as well. Unfortunately, I don't see these as being all to practical for cargo bikes.
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Old 05-27-12, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamDZ View Post
I'll gladly trade increased weight for no flats and not having to carry a pump and spare tubes around.
I can't see how expending all that effort to roll your bike around makes up for the odd flat?

You can run tubeless in any cargo bike which will eliminate most flats without the rolling resistance or weight penalty of solid tires.
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Old 05-27-12, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamDZ View Post
Hutchinson just announced a breakthrough solid tire that is supposed to ride like air. We'll see.

http://www.hutchinsontires.com/en/a_la_une.php?id=221
http://www.popsci.com/bown/2010/prod...inson-serenity
http://urbanvelo.org/hutchinson-sere...f-tire-system/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tOThBxjjCg

They have apparently worked out the issue of shock distribution throughout the tire which was the #1 drawback of solid tires versus pneumatic. I'm definitely interested. I'll gladly trade increased weight for no flats and not having to carry a pump and spare tubes around.
Interesting. Hutchinson doesn't list them as being avilable on theire English language site as far as I can tell, but I did find a page in French listing them as being available: http://www.hutchinsontires.com/fr/ca...vers=1&pid=119

And I found a site selling them: http://www.xxcycle.com/php/boutique/...&wwl=en&wwp=44

They might make good commuting tires.
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Old 05-27-12, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by vik View Post
I can't see how expending all that effort to roll your bike around makes up for the odd flat?

You can run tubeless in any cargo bike which will eliminate most flats without the rolling resistance or weight penalty of solid tires.
Only for commuting and errands. I hate getting flats on the way to or from work or when the bike is loaded with stuff. For everything else I would still use regular tires.
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Old 05-27-12, 07:14 PM
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I could be wrong but i doubt most bikes would survive undamaged loaded with 50lbs of groceries, solid tires, and an accidental drop into a pothole.
Maybe a BD or Yuba could take it, but why would you want to put that kinda stress on your $$ cargo?

Me I prefer fat tubes+fat tires...on big-rigs, tire suspension becomes really important when loaded to the max...the cargo/truck+driver would'nt last long without it.
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Old 05-28-12, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CabezaShok View Post
I could be wrong but i doubt most bikes would survive undamaged loaded with 50lbs of groceries, solid tires, and an accidental drop into a pothole.
Maybe a BD or Yuba could take it, but why would you want to put that kinda stress on your $$ cargo?

Me I prefer fat tubes+fat tires...on big-rigs, tire suspension becomes really important when loaded to the max...the cargo/truck+driver would'nt last long without it.
I use Kevlar tires, Thorn "resistant" tubes and Mr. Tuffy tire liners. Also, I have duct tape around the inside of the tire. I have rarely had a flat using this method. I gave up on Slime as I didn't like the mess and that stuff screwed up two of my pumps.

I'll have to wait for the jury to come back on solid tires before I make the change.
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Old 05-28-12, 08:01 AM
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I am guessing those of you who want to try these airless tires have never had to work on a bike with them? Thankfully the shop I currently work at pretty much refuses to work on them, I think I have only got one of them off without having to cut the tire in two. If you break a spoke it will really be a nightmare.

If you are getting so many flat that it makes you think of using this horrid system, first check into a good puncture resistant tire, throw some tire liners and some sealant in there for good measure but trust me, you don't want this system. I live in an area with lots of goat head thorns and broken glass and it is rare to get a flat because I have good puncture resistant tires, they really do help a lot.
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Old 05-28-12, 08:09 AM
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That video looks like it was done by Frank Miller & Robert Rodriguez.
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Old 05-28-12, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by nubcake View Post
I am guessing those of you who want to try these airless tires have never had to work on a bike with them? Thankfully the shop I currently work at pretty much refuses to work on them, I think I have only got one of them off without having to cut the tire in two. If you break a spoke it will really be a nightmare.

If you are getting so many flat that it makes you think of using this horrid system, first check into a good puncture resistant tire, throw some tire liners and some sealant in there for good measure but trust me, you don't want this system. I live in an area with lots of goat head thorns and broken glass and it is rare to get a flat because I have good puncture resistant tires, they really do help a lot.

Personally, I refuse to use any of these "new" tires. The attempt at making something "airless" or "solid" has been tried in the past and will be tried again in the future. Currently I see no need but for the tried-and-true tube and a tire.

Tubeless, to me, would be a monstrous nightmare to have to change while out on a ride. And solid? Are you kidding me? Seems like another "snake oil" sales attempt to me.

While it MIGHT be good for the "Spandex Warriors" with a full compliment of support vehicles following along they just don't seem practical for the utility rider.
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Old 05-28-12, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BeastRider View Post
Personally, I refuse to use any of these "new" tires. The attempt at making something "airless" or "solid" has been tried in the past and will be tried again in the future. Currently I see no need but for the tried-and-true tube and a tire.

Tubeless, to me, would be a monstrous nightmare to have to change while out on a ride. And solid? Are you kidding me? Seems like another "snake oil" sales attempt to me.

While it MIGHT be good for the "Spandex Warriors" with a full compliment of support vehicles following along they just don't seem practical for the utility rider.
I am with you on most of this. Tubeless is actually great although I do not use it on my commuter as I change tires between knobbies and slicks depending on the ride I want to do somewhat often. Tubeless really does ride better, help prevent flats and you have no more pinch flats but those benefits are really only seen on the mountain bike and some say the new road tubeless works great too but I have not tried it personally.

Changing a flat on the trail is actually no different tubeless vs tubes, you just pull the valve stem and put in a tube.
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Old 05-28-12, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by nubcake View Post

Changing a flat on the trail is actually no different tubeless vs tubes, you just pull the valve stem and put in a tube.
So, that means that while I am out riding and have a flat, I stop, put a tube in, and then, when I get back hom, or wherever, I get to change the tire AGAIN?.........thanks but no thanks. With the setup I currently have I change it out once and I am good to go.......
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Old 05-28-12, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BeastRider View Post
So, that means that while I am out riding and have a flat, I stop, put a tube in, and then, when I get back hom, or wherever, I get to change the tire AGAIN?.........thanks but no thanks. With the setup I currently have I change it out once and I am good to go.......
The amount of flats a good tubeless set up prevents on a mountain bike along with the improved ride quality and grip more than make up for the slight hassle it may be...on my mountain bike. For my commuter I just run heavy tires/tubes and am very happy there, on my mountain bike which I ride fairly aggressively the performance benefits are worth it, especially since flatting with my tubeless set up is extremely rare.
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Old 05-28-12, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by nubcake View Post
The amount of flats a good tubeless set up prevents on a mountain bike along with the improved ride quality and grip more than make up for the slight hassle it may be...on my mountain bike. For my commuter I just run heavy tires/tubes and am very happy there, on my mountain bike which I ride fairly aggressively the performance benefits are worth it, especially since flatting with my tubeless set up is extremely rare.
You can see what I ride in my sig pic. Frankly, the LESS time I have to mess with changing a tire the better. To put tubeless on and then, WHEN you get a flat, to have to change it twice is a bit ludicrous.

I'll stick with the setup that I have. I have rarely managed to flatten a tire with it. Although it DOES happen occasionally. But I only had to change it once.......
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Old 05-29-12, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by BeastRider View Post
So, that means that while I am out riding and have a flat, I stop, put a tube in, and then, when I get back hom, or wherever, I get to change the tire AGAIN?.........thanks but no thanks. With the setup I currently have I change it out once and I am good to go.......
No actually with a tubeless setup you'd go ride and the sharp bits that would cause a flat in your tubes wouldn't give you a flat with a tire filled with sealant so you would most likely never know you ran over them in the first place.

Forget to put enough air in your tubless tire and run over a sharp edge that would pinch flat a tube and your tubless tire will just keep on rolling.

Here is a video demonstrating how the sealant works:

http://vimeo.com/34667745

As a side benefit the lack of a tube will save some weight from each wheel and more importantly the tire will roll with less resistance without a tube inside.

The most I have had to do to seal a decent sized hole in one of my tubless tires is to spin the wheel while leaning the bike to side the hole is in to get a good amount of sealant in that area. Hole sealed up and I kept riding.
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Old 05-30-12, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CabezaShok View Post
I could be wrong but i doubt most bikes would survive undamaged loaded with 50lbs of groceries, solid tires, and an accidental drop into a pothole.
Maybe a BD or Yuba could take it, but why would you want to put that kinda stress on your $$ cargo?
Maybe they figured out how to deal with the shock distribution. Newer materials may work better than other technologies in the past. Like the materials used in armored vests, etc., that spreads the shock far from the impact area. Maybe they figured some out like that?

Otherwise, yea, it'll be pointless.

Originally Posted by nubcake View Post
I am guessing those of you who want to try these airless tires have never had to work on a bike with them? Thankfully the shop I currently work at pretty much refuses to work on them, I think I have only got one of them off without having to cut the tire in two. If you break a spoke it will really be a nightmare.
These will have a separate outer tire and a solid insert so perhaps it'll make mounting easier.
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Old 05-30-12, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BeastRider View Post
You can see what I ride in my sig pic. Frankly, the LESS time I have to mess with changing a tire the better. To put tubeless on and then, WHEN you get a flat, to have to change it twice is a bit ludicrous.

I'll stick with the setup that I have. I have rarely managed to flatten a tire with it. Although it DOES happen occasionally. But I only had to change it once.......
My Xtra will likely never see a tubeless set up but I am very much a convert on my mountain bike. Mostly because I do change tires every now and then on the xtra, if it wasn't for that I would likely make that tubeless as well for the reasons vik mentioned.

Adam, I still do not see how they can make it much easier, even with 2 layers you still have the volume of the tire filled like just a solid chunk of rubber would be but if I ever come across one I really hope I am wrong.
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Old 05-30-12, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamDZ View Post
Hutchinson just announced a breakthrough solid tire that is supposed to ride like air. We'll see.

http://www.hutchinsontires.com/en/a_la_une.php?id=221
http://www.popsci.com/bown/2010/prod...inson-serenity
http://urbanvelo.org/hutchinson-sere...f-tire-system/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tOThBxjjCg

They have apparently worked out the issue of shock distribution throughout the tire which was the #1 drawback of solid tires versus pneumatic.
I saw nothing in the four links provided that suggested any such breakthrough. The only thing that looked different about their approach compared to previous 'airless' tires was that the tread is separable so you can replace it when it wears out and keep the same foam-filled core. Might make it more economical (or not, depending on the price of the new tread), but does nothing for the terrible ride quality, poor shock absorption, and high rolling resistance that have plagued all previous 'airless' tire designs. The last experience of a friend who tried one of these was that instead of getting flats he started having constant spoke breakage issues due to the harsh ride characteristics. He was willing to live with the harsh ride and high rolling resistance on his rather short commute, but having to deal with frequent spoke issues forced him back to regular pneumatic tires.

For the OP, if Schrader valves are preferred by him then go ahead and ream or drill out the rim. Only takes a minute incl. making sure the edges are smooth. Wait with any new 'airless' system until they've been around long enough for reliable user reports of success. Seems like a new one shows up every couple years claiming to be a dramatic improvement but then ends up having the same issues.
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