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Utility Cycling Want to haul groceries, beer, maybe even your kids? You don't have to live car free to put your bike to use as a workhorse. Here's the place to share and learn about the bicycle as a utility vehicle.

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Old 12-03-12, 07:44 PM   #1
hopperja
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I need a new rear wheel...

I'm sure it's no surprise to some, but I need a new rear wheel for my trailer hauling mountainbike.

I use a 2005 Kona Caldera for pulling my Bikes at Work 64A. Sometimes, I have a second trailer attached to the BAW. I have pulled as many as ~575 pounds behind me. Needless to say, the stock Kona rear wheel/hub is about shot.

So that gets me thinking, what would be a good replacement wheel that won't break the bank? A 40+ spoke tandem wheel would be good. Usually these are sold in sets though, and cost $300 or more. I don't need a new front wheel, so a set would be a waste of money.

Or, how about a Mundo disc compatible rear wheel with a 9 spd freewheel attached? The Mundo rear is 135mm OLD, the same as my Caldera (it's the MTB standard). This would cost me less than $120 total including shipping and should be plenty strong enough for my utility hauling needs. The Mundo has cartridge bearings, double wall rims, 48 spokes, and a 14mm solid BMX axel. It's designed to carry massive amounts of weight (400 pounds + rider), so it should be very strong.

What do you guys think? Would this work? Would the Mundo axel fit in my dropouts? Would the 9 speed freewheel be compatible with my SRAM X-9 9spd shifter? Other thoughts or issues?

Thank you!

Last edited by hopperja; 12-03-12 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 12-03-12, 08:19 PM   #2
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OK, I've measured my rear dropout. It is 135mm OLD, but, the dropouts are only 10mm. That leaves me with 2 options: hack up my frame to fit a 14mm axel (which I don't want to do because it could undermine the strength of the frame/dropouts - what good is a beefy wheel that can take the stresses of utility hauling when the frame is weak?), or find something with a 10mm axel that will suffice.

Any suggestions?
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Old 12-04-12, 02:28 AM   #3
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I used a Phil Hub, the only 10mm part is the very end that goes in the dropout, the rest is much larger.

Perhaps those are similar?

Of Note: Shimano's tandem 48 spoke hubs have been modified by, like,
Aaron's bikein Seattle For Cargo longtails
145 down to 135, and a customized Arai thread to disc 6 hole adapter..

those as a wheel at $85, seem cheap, though copy says "Freewheel" , I'd Email them and ask
might not be a cassette hub, like, the Shimano I mentioned is, of course..

But those^hubs are more than that wheel with what may be a BMX hub..

If you can live with a13-32 7 speed , the dish is less, so wheel stronger..

the range the same, just drop a couple 1 tooth difference cogs..

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Old 12-10-12, 04:19 PM   #4
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The Yuba rear wheel has cartridge bearings and a 14mm axel. I wonder if I could replace the bearings with a 9.5mm ID bearing (not sure what the OD of the stock Yuba bearing is) and replace the axel with a 9.5mm solid axel.

Anyone know:
1- what the Yuba bearings are secured with (ie, locknuts, or are they press fitted)?
2- the OD of the Yuba bearings
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Old 12-11-12, 08:42 PM   #5
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Ask the manufacturer.. its their business..


BTW you don't need 9 speeds a 7 speed freewheel will be narrower
so the wheel can be less dished, to the left. The Ratios are the gear
'speeds' just counts How many cogs are crammed into the limited space on the right side.
I got along fine with a 13 - 34t cluster range.. 3 long European tours ..
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Old 12-12-12, 10:30 PM   #6
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Ask the manufacturer.. its their business..



BTW you don't need 9 speeds a 7 speed freewheel will be narrower
so the wheel can be less dished, to the left. The Ratios are the gear
'speeds' just counts How many cogs are crammed into the limited space on the right side.
I got along fine with a 13 - 34t cluster range.. 3 long European tours ..
My questions should be easy to answer by any Yuba owner.

I have 9 spd SRAM trigger shifters on my Kona. Due to this, I think keeping a 9spd cassette or freewheel would be ideal. I know the number of gears isn't the critical factor, rather the range. Take the Brompton 6 spd (which I've been wanting) as a perfect example.

Bottom line: I don't think the SRAM X9 trigger shifters would mesh well with anything other than a 9 spd and I need my two questions answered by any Yuba owner, dealer, or even the manufacturer...

Last edited by hopperja; 12-12-12 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 12-12-12, 11:25 PM   #7
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It is not directly answering your question but if it was me instead of trying to make the Yuba wheel work I would have a local shop who is comfortable building wheels lace me up a Salsa Gordo rim (the same one that comes on the big dummy)http://salsacycles.com/components/gordo_26 to something like a deore or xt 36 hole hub using DT Alpine spokes. That should get you a wheel that is incredibly strong, fits your frame and has far better quality components than the Yuba. They go for quantity of material over quality. 36 spokes with quality components, especially with a quality build is more than enough for anything you will throw at it.

Hope this helps.
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Old 12-13-12, 08:39 AM   #8
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I would second the "get one built to spec" suggestion. Or better, learn to build a wheel and do it yourself! http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html Then you can stick with a good-quality QR hub and some strong rims. A well-built 36 hole wheel should be plenty; it is much stronger than a machine built wheel.
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Old 12-13-12, 11:47 AM   #9
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One point to consider for wheel strength..........the deeper the dish to clear gearing the weaker the wheel.

consider a 6 or 7 speed over a 9 speed for a really strong wheel.
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Old 12-13-12, 12:01 PM   #10
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New [tandem] Rohloff with the 36 spoke hub shell and DT Alpine 13-15-14 ga spokes..

or Shimano Alfine, 8 or 11 speed..

don't own a Yuba, may not be any owners of them, responding to this thread..

( I did 15 years of loaded touring on my Phil Wood hub 48 spoke wheel.)

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-13-12 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 12-13-12, 01:39 PM   #11
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One point to consider for wheel strength..........the deeper the dish to clear gearing the weaker the wheel.

consider a 6 or 7 speed over a 9 speed for a really strong wheel.
You are greatly overthinking the demands of a bicycle wheel, even when heavily loaded. 9 speed wheels can be built more than strong enough and it would keep him from having to replace his drivetrain with parts that likely are much lower quality than he currently has. Not to mention, most 6-7 speed set ups are freewheels and there are few companies making a strong freewheel hub.

Even though Rohloffs are nice, they are certainly not a need. Not to mention going to a Rohloff or even an Alfine 11 would likely cost more than his whole bike is worth, hell the Alfine 8 is probably going to come out more than his bike is worth after being built.

Stick with a sensibly built 36 spoke standard wheel, get a good rim and spokes and it will serve you well for many years.
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Old 12-13-12, 09:43 PM   #12
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It is not directly answering your question but if it was me instead of trying to make the Yuba wheel work I would have a local shop who is comfortable building wheels lace me up a Salsa Gordo rim (the same one that comes on the big dummy)http://salsacycles.com/components/gordo_26 to something like a deore or xt 36 hole hub using DT Alpine spokes. That should get you a wheel that is incredibly strong, fits your frame and has far better quality components than the Yuba. They go for quantity of material over quality. 36 spokes with quality components, especially with a quality build is more than enough for anything you will throw at it.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for the feedback.

I'll have to look into this. By the way, I've built several wheels, so I can save some expense there. That's going to be the way to go.

What do you guys think of the wheels on this page? (I'm a fan of AE bike for on-line purchases). I think I'd be inclined toward the Alex DM24 only because it's a DH/FR rim, so it should be very strong. And, of course, it's cheap.

Re: Hubs, I'd bet the Deore is a stronger hub than the XT. I've heard the XT/XTR lines often err on the side of less strength for less weight.

By the way, I destroyed my current rim by ripping the freehub body out of the hub. The wheel held up tolerably, but my LBS says a new freehub body is available. Fortunately, I have a spare, identical wheel. I'm not in any hurry, but I know a new wheel build is inevitible in the next couple of years...
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Old 12-13-12, 09:51 PM   #13
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.... That should get you a wheel that is incredibly strong, fits your frame and has far better quality components than the Yuba. They go for quantity of material over quality. 36 spokes with quality components, especially with a quality build is more than enough for anything you will throw at it...
I've pulled ~575 pounds while I had ~200 pounds on the bike + the weight of the bike/bags/rack. I'd bet the rolling total was ~840 pounds (there are pictures in these forums). It's so much weight that if I have to get off and walk my bike, it's very difficult to push. My lowest gear ratio is 22/34 (15.9 gear inches), which is often barely enough. Given that, I can, "throw" quite a bit of weight/stress at a wheel. You think a quality 36 spoke 3-cross wheel build would do the trick?
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Old 12-13-12, 09:53 PM   #14
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Thanks for the feedback.

I'll have to look into this. By the way, I've built several wheels, so I can save some expense there. That's going to be the way to go.

What do you guys think of the wheels on this page? (I'm a fan of AE bike for on-line purchases). I think I'd be inclined toward the Alex DM24 only because it's a DH/FR rim, so it should be very strong. And, of course, it's cheap.

Re: Hubs, I'd bet the Deore is a stronger hub than the XT. I've heard the XT/XTR lines often err on the side of less strength for less weight.

By the way, I destroyed my current rim by ripping the freehub body out of the hub. The wheel held up tolerably, but my LBS says a new freehub body is available. Fortunately, I have a spare, identical wheel. I'm not in any hurry, but I know a new wheel build is inevitible in the next couple of years...
The hub question is a touchy subject for some. If it helps, many people who have done very extensive touring have had good luck with either hub so on a commuter I would probably save a couple bucks and go for deore.

Those Alex rims would likely be pretty good for the money but I do not have much experience with them specifically. I know for a fact the Rhyno Lites are extremely tough both from first hand experience and from countless reviews from people online.
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Old 12-13-12, 09:58 PM   #15
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I've pulled ~575 pounds while I had ~200 pounds on the bike + the weight of the bike/bags/rack. I'd bet the rolling total was ~840 pounds (there are pictures in these forums). It's so much weight that if I have to get off and walk my bike, it's very difficult to push. My lowest gear ratio is 22/34 (15.9 gear inches), which is often barely enough. Given that, I can, "throw" quite a bit of weight/stress at a wheel. You think a quality 36 spoke 3-cross wheel build would do the trick?
I think so as long as it is built properly and with quality parts. I would guess the part that could give you the most trouble would be freehubs if you run into a lot of rollers that take sharp bursts of power in your lowest gears. A quality hub is not a bad idea if you have the cash but Shimano should do fine, worst case replacement freehubs are easy to find.

There are options for a 12-36 cassette on the market now, if you are pulling that kind of weight a 22-36 is very nice to have.
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Old 12-13-12, 10:01 PM   #16
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You could also spring for something like this rim for a little extra insurance. http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=597

Even though I feel a well built 36h could handle it fine higher spoke counts are not a horrible idea if you carry that kind of weight fairly often. The problem is quality stuff in higher spoke counts is much harder to find and many times more expensive and it sounds like you do not want to spend a ton of cash.

Out of curiosity, how long as the current wheelset handled these kinds of load? How much are you willing to spend on this? It could be much more cost effective to stick with 36h simply for the money you would save, even if it means having to lace a new rim on every 3-4 years.
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Old 12-21-12, 11:53 AM   #17
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Little late to the party, but-

There are a couple excellent wheelbuilders in the Mechanics form that can be a great source of advice from a technical stand point.

My take-
Since you have a disc hub, ALL your accelerating AND braking forces are transmitted to the rim, through the spokes, via the hub.
If you look at your wheel, 1/2 your spokes are trying to "unwind" in either scenario.

Assuming you have Monster "granny gears" you are putting tremendous tension on 1/2 the spokes if you are "mashing" during acceleration and 1/2 the other spokes if doing "hard" stops.
This means the "other" 1/2 of the spokes are going near "slack".
This tends to "over flex" the bends, which results in early fatigue failure.
For this reason, I'd go to a large amount of spokes to spread the load.

Something else that would help, would be using a butted spoke. This allows some of the spoke 'stretch" to occur in the longer straight section, instead of the elbow.
Since the NDS has about 70% (or so) of the tension that the DS spokes have, I'd use 1 gauge thinner on that side. That would put them in a state of greater "relative" stretch and thus would have less elbow bending in the situations where the spoke is severely loaded/unloaded.
Maybe something along the lines of a 14/15 DB spoke on the DS and a 14-15/16 DB spoke on the NDS.
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