riding shoulders- 'vehicular'? "VC"?
#1
totally louche
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riding shoulders- 'vehicular'? "VC"?
Just got back from a 170 mile, overnight trip around the Hood Canal and up to Port Townsend for some fantastic pizza. I was riding mostly on state highways yesterday and today with steady traffic and wide, clean shoulders.
This morning, leaving Port Townsend, I was tooling along in the shoulder, watching lines of steady traffic approach to overtake me in my rear view mirror, and I began to question my riding -
With steady highway speed traffic, narrow lanes and a wide shoulder on a two lane state highway, there was NO lane sharing or grabbing the lane necessary. I was riding, happy as a clam, on the wide, clean shoulder.
was i being vehicular? Was I in denial of "VC"? what would a bonifide, 'EC certified' rider have been doing? would they have been vehicular? would john be riding VC in the shoulder or not?
what do you do while riding two lane highway speed roads with narrow lanes, wide clean shoulders and steady streams of traffic? are you still vehicular? do you still abide with the "VC" camp?
Can VC ride in shoulders? are they doing it vehicularly? or are they adaptive and non vehicular when they do so?
This morning, leaving Port Townsend, I was tooling along in the shoulder, watching lines of steady traffic approach to overtake me in my rear view mirror, and I began to question my riding -
With steady highway speed traffic, narrow lanes and a wide shoulder on a two lane state highway, there was NO lane sharing or grabbing the lane necessary. I was riding, happy as a clam, on the wide, clean shoulder.
was i being vehicular? Was I in denial of "VC"? what would a bonifide, 'EC certified' rider have been doing? would they have been vehicular? would john be riding VC in the shoulder or not?
what do you do while riding two lane highway speed roads with narrow lanes, wide clean shoulders and steady streams of traffic? are you still vehicular? do you still abide with the "VC" camp?
Can VC ride in shoulders? are they doing it vehicularly? or are they adaptive and non vehicular when they do so?
Last edited by Bekologist; 08-06-07 at 07:48 PM.
#2
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I operate on the shoulder if it is clean, between intersections. I merge into the through lane when approaching intersections or if there is debris (or other surface problems) on the shoulder.
If there is little traffic I ride in the travel lane near the fog line in order to reduce the risk of a flat.
If there is little traffic I ride in the travel lane near the fog line in order to reduce the risk of a flat.
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John would be driving his car. Helmet Head would be weaving in and out of the shoulder. The rest of the cycling world would be riding just as you were.
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#5
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there was NO agony, trust me.
so, steve, is your riding in the shoulder vehicular? is it "VC"?
oh, yeah, and in a few places, leaving Port Townsend, there was a bike stencil...
so, steve, is your riding in the shoulder vehicular? is it "VC"?
oh, yeah, and in a few places, leaving Port Townsend, there was a bike stencil...
#6
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It is part of the vehicle code in many states that slow moving vehicles should pull over into the shoulder if they are impeding the flow of traffic (slowing down 5 or more vehicles) and there is no same direction or other available lane for passing. With steady passing traffic (no long gaps between pods of vehicles), you'd be consistently slowing down traffic which makes staying the shoulder a reasonable choice assuming it's wide and clean enough for the speed you are travelling. At intersections, you should be looking to merge into the rightmost straight lane as Steve has suggested though or at least verifying that you can safely cross the right hook zone without crossing paths with a right turner (sometimes easy to do, sometimes not).
If there were significant gaps between pods of vehicles (30+ seconds) I'd ride in the traffic lane in those gaps for a variety of reasons that have been previously discussed. Doing so is definitely vehicular as is moving back into the shoulder when faster traffic approaches.
If there were significant gaps between pods of vehicles (30+ seconds) I'd ride in the traffic lane in those gaps for a variety of reasons that have been previously discussed. Doing so is definitely vehicular as is moving back into the shoulder when faster traffic approaches.
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not sure, but I do have to say, I have seen slow moving vehicles (farm equipment, cars with flats etc) using the shoulder as a lane so they do not impede faster traffic. I do not know the legality of it, but I know I did the same thing when I had some car problems I had to drive slowly with one time.
#8
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not sure, but I do have to say, I have seen slow moving vehicles (farm equipment, cars with flats etc) using the shoulder as a lane so they do not impede faster traffic. I do not know the legality of it, but I know I did the same thing when I had some car problems I had to drive slowly with one time.
Sec. 11‑709.1. (a) Vehicles shall be driven on a roadway, and shall only be driven on the shoulder for the purpose of stopping or accelerating from a stop while merging into traffic. It shall be a violation of this Section if while merging into traffic and while on the shoulder, the vehicle passes any other vehicle on the roadway adjacent to it. (https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs...ehicle+Code%2E)
Bicycles are to be operated on the roadway as well (as is the case in most states). Of course, bike lanes muck up the laws (as most as just shoulders with a stencil, so is it part of the roadway or the shoulder?) as do inconsistencies in states laws in regards to slow moving vehicles and cyclists (they should be treated as the same thing but often they are given different operating restrictions).
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Just got back from a 170 mile, overnight trip around the Hood Canal and up to Port Townsend for some fantastic pizza. I was riding mostly on state highways yesterday and today with steady traffic and wide, clean shoulders.
This morning, leaving Port Townsend, I was tooling along in the shoulder, watching lines of steady traffic approach to overtake me in my rear view mirror, and I began to question my riding -
With steady highway speed traffic, narrow lanes and a wide shoulder on a two lane state highway, there was NO lane sharing or grabbing the lane necessary. I was riding, happy as a clam, on the wide, clean shoulder.
was i being vehicular? Was I in denial of "VC"? what would a bonifide, 'EC certified' rider have been doing? would they have been vehicular? would john be riding VC in the shoulder or not?
what do you do while riding two lane highway speed roads with narrow lanes, wide clean shoulders and steady streams of traffic? are you still vehicular? do you still abide with the "VC" camp?
Can VC ride in shoulders? are they doing it vehicularly? or are they adaptive and non vehicular when they do so?
This morning, leaving Port Townsend, I was tooling along in the shoulder, watching lines of steady traffic approach to overtake me in my rear view mirror, and I began to question my riding -
With steady highway speed traffic, narrow lanes and a wide shoulder on a two lane state highway, there was NO lane sharing or grabbing the lane necessary. I was riding, happy as a clam, on the wide, clean shoulder.
was i being vehicular? Was I in denial of "VC"? what would a bonifide, 'EC certified' rider have been doing? would they have been vehicular? would john be riding VC in the shoulder or not?
what do you do while riding two lane highway speed roads with narrow lanes, wide clean shoulders and steady streams of traffic? are you still vehicular? do you still abide with the "VC" camp?
Can VC ride in shoulders? are they doing it vehicularly? or are they adaptive and non vehicular when they do so?
So, certainly vehicular cyclists can choose to ride in shoulders in segregated mode under certain conditions. But when doing so they recognize they are segregated, and not integrated or separated, and understand the associated right-of-way and conspicuity consequences, and think and ride accordingly.
#10
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so, we have one vehicular with contradictions (joejack) one dodge (brian, an LCI) one its okay but keeping mum if its vc or not (Steve, another LCI) and one it's not vehicular but it is VC (helemt head)
interesting contradictions. so, helemt, does that mean, EVERY time you move across a shoulder line to let faster traffic pass, you are going non-vehicular? how does that jibe with "VC, all the time?"
do "VC" riders often go adaptive cyclists? is VC rendered null and void with every shoulder stripe, narrow lane, speed differentials and steady traffic?
Why, how does that work that way???
(In my opinion, shoulder riding as I described is defiently vehicular and has no contradiction with safe cycling or vehicular cycling concepts.)
interesting contradictions. so, helemt, does that mean, EVERY time you move across a shoulder line to let faster traffic pass, you are going non-vehicular? how does that jibe with "VC, all the time?"
do "VC" riders often go adaptive cyclists? is VC rendered null and void with every shoulder stripe, narrow lane, speed differentials and steady traffic?
Why, how does that work that way???
(In my opinion, shoulder riding as I described is defiently vehicular and has no contradiction with safe cycling or vehicular cycling concepts.)
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#12
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the IL law.
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+1 it seems he's found a new angle...
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"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen
Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen
Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
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Seems the difference is whether you are playing peekaboo with traffic or with your own self-definition of what kind of rider you are (now I'm VC! now I'm not! Peekaboo!) or whether you're just plain old riding your bike (in which case you're not playing peekaboo at all -- you're just doing whatever comes most naturally and makes the most sense at the time.)
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Stop labeling normal, successful, competent cyclists with Forester-based nonsense.
VC simply means knowing and understanding the vehicular rules of the road, and riding accordingly.
If you don't know and understand the vehicular rules of the road, you cannot ride accordingly.
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Seems the difference is whether you are playing peekaboo with traffic or with your own self-definition of what kind of rider you are (now I'm VC! now I'm not! Peekaboo!) or whether you're just plain old riding your bike (in which case you're not playing peekaboo at all -- you're just doing whatever comes most naturally and makes the most sense at the time.)
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Heres how to ride your bike.
Step 1 un lock
step 2 get on bike
step 3 ride how ever makes you the most comfortable with traffic (while staying safe and legal avoid side walks wrong way cycling etc)
Step 4 the most important thing enjoy the ride.
If you must think about what "MODE" your in then your not going to enjoy riding.
Step 1 un lock
step 2 get on bike
step 3 ride how ever makes you the most comfortable with traffic (while staying safe and legal avoid side walks wrong way cycling etc)
Step 4 the most important thing enjoy the ride.
If you must think about what "MODE" your in then your not going to enjoy riding.
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Why is the relatively vague "normal, successful, competent"[1] an acceptable cyclist label for you, but the somewhat less vague "vehicular" is not? Because Fagerlin coined the former, and Forester coined the latter? What difference does it make who coined the label with respect to whether it's useful to use it or not?
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Stop making such silly statements, Diane. The only time that I have been in Port Townsend was when I was cycling through on a long tour.
#21
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and a dodge from john.
john, care to actually anwser the question posted in the original post, without insulting my, or others point of view?
Is riding in a clean wide shoulder, while steady streams of high speed traffic pass VC or is it not VC? is it vehicular? Do VC riding along go from vehicular to non-vehicular with every move across the white stripe?
john, care to actually anwser the question posted in the original post, without insulting my, or others point of view?
Is riding in a clean wide shoulder, while steady streams of high speed traffic pass VC or is it not VC? is it vehicular? Do VC riding along go from vehicular to non-vehicular with every move across the white stripe?
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and a dodge from john.
john, care to actually anwser the question posted in the original post, without insulting my, or others point of view?
Is riding in a clean wide shoulder, while steady streams of high speed traffic pass VC or is it not VC? is it vehicular? Do VC riding along go from vehicular to non-vehicular with every move across the white stripe?
john, care to actually anwser the question posted in the original post, without insulting my, or others point of view?
Is riding in a clean wide shoulder, while steady streams of high speed traffic pass VC or is it not VC? is it vehicular? Do VC riding along go from vehicular to non-vehicular with every move across the white stripe?
#23
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more dodging from john.
john, is it vehicular for a cyclist to ride in the accomodating shoulder of a roadway, or is a VC riding non-vehicularily every time they cross the white stripe?
john, is it vehicular for a cyclist to ride in the accomodating shoulder of a roadway, or is a VC riding non-vehicularily every time they cross the white stripe?
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Possibly you could inform us of why you think this is important?
#25
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the head poobah vehikular cyclist cannot answer a simple question about his suggested riding style......
what a dodger.
HILARIOUS!!!