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Old 04-30-08, 07:00 PM
  #76  
Allister
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Originally Posted by RobertHurst View Post
IMO, agreement can be just as destructive as disagreement.
I agree.
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Old 04-30-08, 10:22 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by YULitle View Post
We still have people in this country that don't know we belong on the road. We have people who ride without helmets. We have people that shout at us, regardless of our lane position. These things need fixing.
I don't think people who are riding around without helmets are a problem and thus does not need fixing. What I am doing about it is giving you an 'example' of how I respond to people who spout this kind of nonsense. If you want to find areas of agreement, don't start out by making disagreeable claims...then retreating when called on it and trying to regain the false high ground by saying 'they were just examples' and that I am the problem. Capice?
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Old 04-30-08, 10:24 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Allister View Post
I agree.
Why do you want to be destructive?
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Old 04-30-08, 10:42 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
Why do you want to be destructive?
CORNELIUS
...I'm a priest! I'm here to serve life,
All you want to do is destroy it.

ZORG
Ah, Father... You are so wrong.
Let me explain...

Zorg leads Cornelius into his inner office.

ZORG
...would you like a drink?

CORNELIUS
No thank you.

ZORG
Follow me.. Life, which you so nobly serve,
comes from destruction. Look at this empty
glass.

Zorg pushes the glass with his finger.

ZORG
Here it is... peaceful... serene...
but if it is...

Zorg pushes the glass off the table. It shatters on the floor.

ZORG
Destroyed...

Small individual robots, both free-wheeling and integrated, come zipping
out to clean up the mess.

ZORG
...Look at all these little things...
so busy all of a sudden.
Notice how each one is useful.
What a lovely ballet, so full of form
and color. So full of..life!

CORNELIUS
They are robots!

A SERVANT comes in pours water in another glass. Zorg tosses a cherry
into it.

ZORG
Yes but... by that simple gesture of destruction.
I gave work to at least fifty people today. The
engineers, the technicians, the mechanics. Fifty
people who will be able to feed their children so
they can grow up big and strong. Children who
will have children of their own, adding to the great
cycle of life!

Cornelius sits in silence.

ZORG
Father, by creating a little destruction,
I am, in fact, encouraging life! So, in
reality, you and I are in the same business!
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Old 05-01-08, 05:43 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by YULitle View Post
Sorry. I lost my temper. Let's just end this. I can't believe I got drug into this. Good day.
Positive recommendation: Think twice about your examples before trying to bring "us" all together in a consensus around what you think are "our" common needs.

It might help if you didn't make assumptions that all of "us" on BF (and more importantly cyclists everywhere else) share your alleged progressive/liberal ideas about "needs." Even more helpful for positive advocacy is not to make an assumption that only those BF members/advocates who share your ideas represent the total cycling population, nor represent the interests or agenda of anyone outside their own self centered clique.

To get back to the thread subject, it is just those type of assumptions about ownership of the only correct and proper agenda for cycling advocacy that have made the zealous Vehicular Cyclists Promoters so divisiveand ineffective.
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Old 05-01-08, 06:38 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Positive recommendation: Think twice about your examples before trying to bring "us" all together in a consensus around what you think are "our" common needs.

It might help if you didn't make assumptions that all of "us" on BF (and more importantly cyclists everywhere else) share your alleged progressive/liberal ideas about "needs." Even more helpful for positive advocacy is not to make an assumption that only those BF members/advocates who share your ideas represent the total cycling population, nor represent the interests or agenda of anyone outside their own self centered clique.

To get back to the thread subject, it is just those type of assumptions about ownership of the only correct and proper agenda for cycling advocacy that have made the zealous Vehicular Cyclists Promoters so divisiveand ineffective.
YULite...How dare you try to make a positive contribution.

We have no interest in any kind of consensus or cooperation on this forum. We prefer lurking on the fringe and then attacking any effort to get agreement on anything. Sure, you might think this is a place to advance the interests of all cyclists but you are in error!

Each of us have our own agenda and it is impossible to find common ground.

My apologies in advance for this posting...couldn't help myself.

Ed, my where can one order a CRAP jersey?
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Old 05-01-08, 07:42 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Script View Post
Sure, you might think this is a place to advance the interests of all cyclists but you are in error!
Nope. This is the place for "all cyclists" who believe they already know what every other cyclists needs , and are here to establish a consensus (i.e. group hug) among the Advocates and Experts who share their own allegedly progressive and liberal cycling ideas.

Objective: educating all others about the consensus bicycling correctness, especially cyclists with different profiles/backgrounds than the progressive clique, whom they believe are clueless about progressive and liberal cycling ideas.
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Old 05-01-08, 08:05 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Script View Post
Sure, you might think this is a place to advance the interests of all cyclists but you are in error!
Correct.

1. This is an internet DISCUSSION forum, not a a public policy venue. We discuss and debate issues here, there is no charter requiring us to come together to agree on some agenda.

2. This is the Vehicular Cycling subforum...hardly the place to advance the interests of all cyclists considering that most VC advocates, including JF himself, have a very narrow view of what a cyclist is and which cyclists they wish to advocate for.
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Old 05-01-08, 08:34 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Nope. This is the place for "all cyclists" who believe they already know what every other cyclists needs , and are here to establish a consensus (i.e. group hug) among the Advocates and Experts who share their own allegedly progressive and liberal cycling ideas.

Objective: educating all others about the consensus bicycling correctness, especially cyclists with different profiles/backgrounds than the progressive clique, whom they believe are clueless about progressive and liberal cycling ideas.
OOPS

So help me understand....since I am not and never have been a progressive liberal, I cannot have an opinion or even suggest that there may be some commonality as too what might be considered good bicycling practices?

Last edited by Script; 05-01-08 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 05-01-08, 08:38 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
Correct.

1. This is an internet DISCUSSION forum, not a a public policy venue. We discuss and debate issues here, there is no charter requiring us to come together to agree on some agenda.

2. This is the Vehicular Cycling subforum...hardly the place to advance the interests of all cyclists considering that most VC advocates, including JF himself, have a very narrow view of what a cyclist is and which cyclists they wish to advocate for.
1. Of course not. And that a majority would agree on something in this forum is probably beyond the pale.

2. So if one does not espouse the narrow version of VC, this is not the place to suggest variations, including the dreaded 'BL's as having value' in some small way arguement?

Okay.
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Old 05-01-08, 08:43 AM
  #86  
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YU, FYI, there is a whole thread about helmets if you want to go in there and talk about helmets. Closetbiker will be happy to oblige.
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Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
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Old 05-01-08, 04:53 PM
  #87  
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I'm amazed that consideration of the simple act of riding a bicycle can result in such staggering arguments.
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Old 05-01-08, 05:05 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Ed Holland View Post
I'm amazed that consideration of the simple act of riding a bicycle can result in such staggering arguments.
BINGO! I think everyone can agree on that!
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Old 05-02-08, 07:13 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Ed Holland View Post
I'm amazed that consideration of the simple act of riding a bicycle can result in such staggering arguments.
The simple act of riding a bicycle is not simple enough for those determined to educate simple cyclists (AKA incompetent cyclists in VC lingo) in the intricacies of their brand of bicycling science and/or self proclaimed progressive/liberal advocates' bicycling ideas.
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Old 05-03-08, 01:39 PM
  #90  
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I've been on BF for a little while, and I see all of you bickering about nothing, and it discourages me. My bicycling mileage has dropped, and I'm pretty sure you BF bickerers are to blame for that.

But now I'm past all that, and I'd like to share the light with you. I know we exchange ideas and our ideas collide, being liberals here... but we should agree to some core missions and work on that, instead of going on in the debate of the merits of these different ideas we all have. There are cyclists out there who don't dismount their bikes at each stop sign. There are car drivers that seem to eat more and more ice cream no matter how skillfully we pedal. These problems need fixing. I don't think whining about the nuances of pedal skills is doing jack spit to fix these problems.

NOTE: Bicycle dismounting and ice cream eating are just examples that I threw out there, and don't stand behind, of things we could HYPOTHETICALLY agree to as more important than our bickering. All I know is that I am past the bickering, and know we must agree to something. I have no idea what that something might be. As I said, those two examples were not things I believe, but just assumed that maybe you all would latch on to readily. Or that maybe no one else had thought to even try to find common ground here (I'm very smart, so I just assumed I was the first), and that with this new way of thinking (thanks to me!) one of you would come up with a real idea of something we could all get behind.
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Old 05-03-08, 07:45 PM
  #91  
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zeytoun, don't stop riding!!

I'm riding more than I ever have, AND eating more ice cream!

I've only read the first and last pages of this, and I'm frankly amazed that even without HH, there's still so much bickering. But I just wanted to say that I like the term "integrated cycling" the best. AFAIK, it's not associated with any particular camp, no capital letters and trademark, but it's descriptive. It's the idea that we are better off integrated with the rest of traffic rather than segregated away from it.
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Old 05-04-08, 05:46 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by zeytoun View Post
I've been on BF for a little while, and I see all of you bickering about nothing, and it discourages me. My bicycling mileage has dropped, and I'm pretty sure you BF bickerers are to blame for that.

But now I'm past all that, and I'd like to share the light with you. I know we exchange ideas and our ideas collide, being liberals here... but we should agree to some core missions and work on that, instead of going on in the debate of the merits of these different ideas we all have. There are cyclists out there who don't dismount their bikes at each stop sign. There are car drivers that seem to eat more and more ice cream no matter how skillfully we pedal. These problems need fixing. I don't think whining about the nuances of pedal skills is doing jack spit to fix these problems...
zeytoun,

I agree with the missions concept. One of my most inspiring cycle mates many years ago, a man named Miles Sydney, used to set out on his bike tours with a mission. One European tour he called "The Search for the Perfect Pickled Herring". Since then I have always called my tours something- I do regular summer tours of the New England coastline, which I have called "The Search for the Perfect Lobster Roll". The perfect lobster roll experience has certain criteria for me:

#1- The roll- I like a hot dog roll but it must be fresh and of a high quality.

#2- The amount and freshness of the lobster- big chunks of fresh lobster and just the right amount of mayo...

#3- The location. Including the view, the service, bike rack??...

#4- How was the ride to the location? Great roads, great weather, wind behind me?...

#5- How close to heaven on earth was the experience? A perfect lobster roll, on a perfect day, on a perfect ride is pretty close to nirvana for me.

Maybe we need a collective mission- the perfect ice cream?

I'm ready to search for the holy grail of cycling- be it ice cream, lobster or chocolate... you name it.
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Old 05-04-08, 08:51 PM
  #93  
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WTF John and buzzman?! As I've repeatedly repeated, Ice Cream is just an example!



Just kidding. I like ice cream...
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Old 05-04-08, 10:07 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by zeytoun View Post
WTF John and buzzman?! As I've repeatedly repeated, Ice Cream is just an example!



Just kidding. I like ice cream...
O No! Now I am confused- isn't ice cream what it's all about?

If it's not all about ice cream what is it all about?

I'm melting...
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Old 05-05-08, 04:09 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by buzzman View Post
O No! Now I am confused- isn't ice cream what it's all about?

If it's not all about ice cream what is it all about?
Alfie?
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Old 05-05-08, 05:38 AM
  #96  
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Ice cream and lobster rolls for serious cyclists who dismount at each stop sign?
AS IF you could pawn that stuff off on the Northwesterners!
coffee and pie, coffee and pie!


I think forming a consensus on exactly how to dismount at stopsigns, for how long and with which flourish, is quite important to the annals of bicycling advocacy.

How far does one swing ones' leg at each stop? is there a difference if you are turning left, or turning right? Can you signal turns with your feet? Does a certain hesitancy during the dismount indicate bicycling inferiority complexes? Can a bicyclist use body english and panache to communicate their parity to other road users during the dismount?

These are important questions that the VC subforum has been expressly created to explore.

Last edited by Bekologist; 05-05-08 at 05:44 AM.
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Old 05-05-08, 06:53 AM
  #97  
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Pie...definitely pie. Anyone who disagrees is a scofflaw Darwin candidate and giving us all a bad name.
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Old 05-05-08, 08:04 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Allister View Post
ZORG
Yes but... by that simple gesture of destruction.
I gave work to at least fifty people today. The
engineers, the technicians, the mechanics. Fifty
people who will be able to feed their children so
they can grow up big and strong. Children who
will have children of their own, adding to the great
cycle of life!

Cornelius sits in silence.

ZORG
Father, by creating a little destruction,
I am, in fact, encouraging life! So, in
reality, you and I are in the same business!
Just sort of makes you want to go out and "encourage life" eh?
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Old 05-05-08, 08:45 PM
  #99  
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coffee and pie...lobster and ice cream...

Why can't we all just get along!!!!!!!!!!!

And how many of you swing your leg forward over the handlebars to get on your bikes instead of over the seat?

And how many of you push your bike along on one pedal like a scooter and then throw your leg over the seat?

And do you do that from the right or the left of the bike?

Why can't you all do things the way I do them!!!!
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Old 05-06-08, 11:28 AM
  #100  
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Perhaps I should re-title this thread "Lets forget it"
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