Dedicated winter bike or change tires?
11-23-16, 10:25 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by JonathanGennick
Oh, yeah, they work great. But keep in mind that I'm running mountain bike tires with many, many studs. Last winter I ran Hakkapeliitta WXC 300s, with 300 studs in them. My one neighbor ran some Nokian Freddies having, I think, 336 studs. My other neighbor ran some Nokian Extreme 29er tires having 294 studs in them.
And we go at reasonable speeds. We are not doing 30 mph down some icy hill. Nothing that crazy.
The Freddies have a flatter profile and grip the best. The WXC 300s are more rounded in profile, and I do notice the reduced grip from having fewer of the studs actually in contact w/the ice.
Straight line on glare ice is no trouble. In fact, I have to remind myself to take care when stopping and putting a foot down. More than once I've almost fallen after stopping the bike and forgetting that I'm on ice still.
Straight line braking is pretty ok too. Easy to lock up the rear wheel. Harder to lock up the front, though it can happen and the studs do sometimes break free of their grip on the ice. But a straight line skid is easily controlled.
Cornering. BE CAREFUL. These studs don't really protrude much. Avoid lateral forces and corner easy. I slow way down on the turns to reduce my lean and avoiding sideways forces on the tire/ice interface.
I've actually never yet owned studded road tires. This year I might try a set.
Side streets in my small city aren't often scraped to the pavement during winter. There's usually a layer of hard-pack. Not sure whether that's to save money on plow blades, or to enable the snowmobiler community. Might be a little of both. Most days it is the widely-spaced, rubber mountain-bike-style lugs that matter the most. There was just one thaw/freeze event last winter that gave us a few days of glare ice in the back alleys and in some of the parking lots.
And we go at reasonable speeds. We are not doing 30 mph down some icy hill. Nothing that crazy.
The Freddies have a flatter profile and grip the best. The WXC 300s are more rounded in profile, and I do notice the reduced grip from having fewer of the studs actually in contact w/the ice.
Straight line on glare ice is no trouble. In fact, I have to remind myself to take care when stopping and putting a foot down. More than once I've almost fallen after stopping the bike and forgetting that I'm on ice still.
Straight line braking is pretty ok too. Easy to lock up the rear wheel. Harder to lock up the front, though it can happen and the studs do sometimes break free of their grip on the ice. But a straight line skid is easily controlled.
Cornering. BE CAREFUL. These studs don't really protrude much. Avoid lateral forces and corner easy. I slow way down on the turns to reduce my lean and avoiding sideways forces on the tire/ice interface.
I've actually never yet owned studded road tires. This year I might try a set.
Side streets in my small city aren't often scraped to the pavement during winter. There's usually a layer of hard-pack. Not sure whether that's to save money on plow blades, or to enable the snowmobiler community. Might be a little of both. Most days it is the widely-spaced, rubber mountain-bike-style lugs that matter the most. There was just one thaw/freeze event last winter that gave us a few days of glare ice in the back alleys and in some of the parking lots.
I find riding studded tires on ice is very similar to riding on loose gravel. Going straight ahead is no trouble at all. Braking and turns is where you need to remember that while studs improve your grip tremendously they don't have as much grip as regular tires on dry pavement, so adjust your riding method accordingly.
Also, one needs to remember that studded tires on dry pavement provide about the same grip as studded tires on ice. The metal studs keep the rubber from making full contact, and the studs themselves don't supply grip on pavement. I've dumped my winter bike a few times taking corners too aggressively on dry pavement. It's easy to see a nice smooth and dry road surface and forget that I don't have the grip of regular tires.
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11-23-16, 10:47 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by Tundra_Man
Also, one needs to remember that studded tires on dry pavement provide about the same grip as studded tires on ice.
I've seen claims that the studs will be pushed in by the pavement, and that it will be the rubber that mainly makes contact. My experience though, is spot on with what Tundra Man says.
11-23-16, 11:39 AM
#53
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Dedicated winter bike of change tires?
I have always done a little of both. I always had at least two bikes, one good, one as a winter/rain/city bike. In the old days they were a sew-up'd good bike that did not see New England and Michigan winter streets and a beat up fix gear that got cyclocross sewups for the winter.
I have been on the west coast the past 35 years. Here we don't have salt so winter riding isn't a bike killer. All my bikes take fenders and at least 25c tires. But I keep at least two bikes as winter/'rain/city bikes, a 400 level Trek as a fix gear with 28c Paselas and an old Raleigh Competition with 35c Paselas that easily handles 37c Continental ice tires. (Not studded but ridiculously grippy - and smaller than the 35c Paselas.
)
Also, since 1998 I have had my good bike that can do anything by design, that '79 Peter Mooney. It has only seen snow once but was superb until ice gummed up the freewheel. Now, had I swapped chain and rear wheel and run fixed (horizontal dropouts for exactly that reason) it would have ruled that day. The Mooney and Competition are the two best winter bikes I have ever ridden. If I were back in salt country, the Mooney would get a new paint job of Imron and the Competition of hand brushed epoxy.
I strongly recommend that any frame purchased to be a dedicated winter bike have horizontal dropouts. This makes going to single speed, fixed gear or IGH easy. No games to play to set the chain tension correctly. And if you ride in salt regularly, esp in a situation where you do not have easy access to running water after rides or the time to use it, your chain WILL rust. Frozen links happen. With horizontal dropouts, sliding the wheel forward to accommodate the now tighter chain from that frozen link is easy. (I drew the line at two frozen links but my old Peugeot did many miles with them.)
As said above - if you ride in salt on your good bike, you will hit springtime with a dedicated winter bike for next year but you will be stuck buying that good bike for the summer when demand is high. (Again - )
Ben
I have always done a little of both. I always had at least two bikes, one good, one as a winter/rain/city bike. In the old days they were a sew-up'd good bike that did not see New England and Michigan winter streets and a beat up fix gear that got cyclocross sewups for the winter.
I have been on the west coast the past 35 years. Here we don't have salt so winter riding isn't a bike killer. All my bikes take fenders and at least 25c tires. But I keep at least two bikes as winter/'rain/city bikes, a 400 level Trek as a fix gear with 28c Paselas and an old Raleigh Competition with 35c Paselas that easily handles 37c Continental ice tires. (Not studded but ridiculously grippy - and smaller than the 35c Paselas.
)Also, since 1998 I have had my good bike that can do anything by design, that '79 Peter Mooney. It has only seen snow once but was superb until ice gummed up the freewheel. Now, had I swapped chain and rear wheel and run fixed (horizontal dropouts for exactly that reason) it would have ruled that day. The Mooney and Competition are the two best winter bikes I have ever ridden. If I were back in salt country, the Mooney would get a new paint job of Imron and the Competition of hand brushed epoxy.
I strongly recommend that any frame purchased to be a dedicated winter bike have horizontal dropouts. This makes going to single speed, fixed gear or IGH easy. No games to play to set the chain tension correctly. And if you ride in salt regularly, esp in a situation where you do not have easy access to running water after rides or the time to use it, your chain WILL rust. Frozen links happen. With horizontal dropouts, sliding the wheel forward to accommodate the now tighter chain from that frozen link is easy. (I drew the line at two frozen links but my old Peugeot did many miles with them.)
As said above - if you ride in salt on your good bike, you will hit springtime with a dedicated winter bike for next year but you will be stuck buying that good bike for the summer when demand is high. (Again -
)Ben
11-23-16, 12:08 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by bikemig
I need to overhaul my winter commuter before my garage turns into a deep freeze!
11-23-16, 12:12 PM
#55
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I've been OK with Suomi (Finland) Nokian Mount and Ground W, for a decade + .
Tread design has 2 rows of studs, none down the center. so works great with mixed bare pavement & Icy patches
that are typical conditions where I Live..
Wheels built around Drum brakes, mounted on Old MTB.. Pre suspension fork & Pre Disc frame..
only slips when I'm Walking the bike indoors across the linoleum Shop floor , not on the street sitting on the saddle .
...
Tread design has 2 rows of studs, none down the center. so works great with mixed bare pavement & Icy patches
that are typical conditions where I Live..
Wheels built around Drum brakes, mounted on Old MTB.. Pre suspension fork & Pre Disc frame..
only slips when I'm Walking the bike indoors across the linoleum Shop floor , not on the street sitting on the saddle .
...
11-25-16, 09:01 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by Tundra_Man
Also, one needs to remember that studded tires on dry pavement provide about the same grip as studded tires on ice. The metal studs keep the rubber from making full contact, and the studs themselves don't supply grip on pavement. I've dumped my winter bike a few times taking corners too aggressively on dry pavement. It's easy to see a nice smooth and dry road surface and forget that I don't have the grip of regular tires.
11-28-16, 09:41 AM
#57
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Tundra_Man
Good advice.
I find riding studded tires on ice is very similar to riding on loose gravel. Going straight ahead is no trouble at all. Braking and turns is where you need to remember that while studs improve your grip tremendously they don't have as much grip as regular tires on dry pavement, so adjust your riding method accordingly.
Also, one needs to remember that studded tires on dry pavement provide about the same grip as studded tires on ice. The metal studs keep the rubber from making full contact, and the studs themselves don't supply grip on pavement. I've dumped my winter bike a few times taking corners too aggressively on dry pavement. It's easy to see a nice smooth and dry road surface and forget that I don't have the grip of regular tires.
I find riding studded tires on ice is very similar to riding on loose gravel. Going straight ahead is no trouble at all. Braking and turns is where you need to remember that while studs improve your grip tremendously they don't have as much grip as regular tires on dry pavement, so adjust your riding method accordingly.
Also, one needs to remember that studded tires on dry pavement provide about the same grip as studded tires on ice. The metal studs keep the rubber from making full contact, and the studs themselves don't supply grip on pavement. I've dumped my winter bike a few times taking corners too aggressively on dry pavement. It's easy to see a nice smooth and dry road surface and forget that I don't have the grip of regular tires.
11-28-16, 09:46 AM
#58
Senior Member
Originally Posted by 1989Pre
I don't bother with studded tires. In the fall, I go from 1.25" slicks to 2.1" knobbies and pop my fenders on my A.T.B. That should do it. I don't see any reason to have a dedicated winter bike. I don't trust any tire, studded included, to get me over ice. If I see ice up ahead, I either go around it or get off the bike and walk it. I keep my speed down, watching and waiting for these sometimes-snow-covered ice patches. When I come home, I just put the bike in the shower, rinse and then wash it down with a sponge and dish soap.
11-28-16, 10:47 AM
#59
The Fat Guy In The Back
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Originally Posted by Leebo
Rider weight, tires size and psi? I tend to run my 26x2.0 at 30-35 psi for more grip. 230 lb rider weight.
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12-11-16, 07:53 PM
#60
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My touring bike handles up to 2" tires so I swap out the wheels for a spare set with 1 3/4" studded tires once the snow starts accumulating. My city bike also gets some narrower studded tires but only gets used when the streets are relatively clear of snow and ice is the danger.
Marc
Marc
