threshold when to decide between studs & just wider tires
 

at what point would you decide to switch from studded tires to wider tires w/o studs?

3"?

Ice. My rule is - studded tires when there will be ice. So, I put studded tires on when I can expect to encounter ice routinely on rides. As a general rule, that translates to around Thanksgiving in my area. It may not actually happen then, the weather being so weird now, but in theory it could/should. Around the first week in April is time to take them off.

I also go up in width and tread/traction in the fall when I expect to encounter slippery wet leaves or frost, so around late September, and again for April into mid-May, depending on weather patterns.

I only ride slicks/near slicks when I know it's not going to be slippery - so that is basically mid-May to late September.

Studded anytime it is winter, or snow on the ground. Learned my lesson the hard way. Did a full on left body slam against the pavement in the rain. Literally the only pile of snow on the commute, a shadowy corner with some frozen melt unseen with the rain. Knocked the wind out of me with my left arm tucked under me and yes, the helmet worked well. 10 minutes later I shook it off and got my breathing and nerves back. And pedaled the last 8 miles to work. HTFU.

Non-studded 4" tires at 5psi are just as bad on ice as non-studded 23mm tires at 100psi. Studs are for ice. Nothing else sticks to it.

If there's 2" of snow on top of the ice, then 4" tires are great.

Agreed. Good advice.

Studs mitigate slipping on ice. Extra wide tires mitigate travelling over loose snow. The two considerations are largely independent.

Another voice saying that studs for ice or possibility of ice, regardless of tire width. Wider tires for deeper snow and wider tires for the uneven ruts that come after fresh untraveled snow. About the only thing snow-wise that narrower tires might be better on (IMHO) is not-too-deep fresh powdery snow and loose, unfrozen slush.

I just got back from a ride where the streets are coated with frozen drizzle. School busses could barely climb hills, cars spinning tires even on gentle take off for stop lights. Studs rule. I could climb, stop, turn, even start on hills. I wouldn't have necessarily known it was icey if it wasn't for what footing when I put my foot down (I slowed at stops, and did a semi-track-stand when I could). Yes, you need to be cautious and use good bike handling skills, even with studs. Yes studs cost money, yes they make noise. They probably add some drag (not that I notice it anymore, and snow adds much more drag, so it's just part of winter riding to me). No they don't do anything for snow: but where there's snow, there's likely to be ice.


If you pick your riding days, or can be selective on routes, or don't really ride in a winter climate, studs aren't needed. I generally don't, and do live in a winter climate, so studs on winter bikes. I can't convince my wife, but she just skips riding a lot of winter days.

As long as there is a reasonable chance of encountering ice or hardpack, the studs stay on.

Once it drops below freezing, it's time for the studs. On little frozen pond is enough to take you down.

I use shwalbe's CX pro 32 in deep powder. Has way more grip in fresh snow. Rest of the time, studded 35's. Ice sucks without studs.

I was very happy to find out that I could get Marathon studded tires in a 30 C size for this winter for my Diverge beater bike, and I never needed to ride my wide, studded-tire mountain bike at all. All my winter (and otherwise) riding is on pavement mainly as a commuter, with extendable routes.

Also nice is that they worked well at full pressure (90 psi). On the worst slippery day, I rode confidently, but had two near falls while walking.

0C on the thermometer?

I failed twice to choose the correct tire yesterday & today. rode w/o the studs. played w tire pressure to keep forward momentum & stay upright. but even if I used studs, these trails would have been best avoided

http://i.imgur.com/B46eNsd.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sDQTMla.jpg

You never know how much ice is beneath any layer of snow.

Even at above freezing temperatures in the air, exposed snow is insulating what is underneath.

Compressed snow from car tire tracks or pedestrians create ice underneath.

Even a snowless trail may be coated with ice after an ice rain.

90 psi seems way too high.The idea for studded tires is for them be slightly soft to conform to the bumps in the ice. I know you've been at this for a while and if it works for you, great. Are the studs right in the middle? My hakka pelittas are 700x 40 and I run 40-45 or so for psi.

I swapped out the Winter Marathons from my Montare for the third and hopefully final time this season.

oh man, that stinks. was thinking about storing my studs & heard snow for Friday. frustrating winter

Hi Leebo, North of Boston; I’m in Kenmore Square. Below is a picture of the Marathon 30C studded tires. I guess the studs look central. 90 psi is my usual tire pressure. I also have run my wide Marathon Winter studded tires on my mountain bike at normal pressure of 65 psi for the past several winters.

This winter, the first with the Diverge, was not too bad. On the worst day as described previously, the slippery conditions were more slippery slush than hard ice, or snowpack.

Earlier this winter I had this discussion with fellow Bostonian, Archwhorides.One thing I have tried to figure out is what’s a good way to test the studs on a given day with slick conditions, to make sure they will hold, without actually sliding off the road?

Those tires look like they really have minimal studs. Do they work? Seems like you would need more. Testing? Get some pond ice at low speed. Hit brakes? And lower pressure will do better for grip. Most studded tires have sidewall that are very thick. Try 50 psi front and 60 rear, even that seems too high for me. 225 lb rider plus gear here.

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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 19468292)

I was very happy to find out that I could get Marathon studded tires in a 30 C size for this winter for my Diverge beater bike, and I never needed to ride my wide studded-tire mountain bike at all. All my winter (and otherwise) riding is on pavement mainly as a commuter...

Also nice is that they worked well at full pressure (90 psi). On the worst slippery day, I rode confidently, but had two near falls while walking. 90 psi is my usual tire pressure. I also have run my wide Marathon Winter studded tires on my mountain bike at normal pressure of 65 psi for the past several winters.

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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 19470717)

Several years ago, when I was considering whether to get studded tires, this post by @tsl of Rochester, NY in the Lake Erie snowbelt convinced me.

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Originally Posted by tsl (Post 8128194)

I dunno, maybe it's my age showing. Here in Rochester, at least along my commute, there's always ice that miraculously didn't get salted away….

Broken bones would keep me off the bike for weeks while they mend.

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One thing I have tried to figure out is what’s a good way to test the studs on a given day with slick conditions, to make sure they will hold, without actually sliding off the road?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leebo (Post 19475600)

Those tires look like they really have minimal studs. Do they work? Seems like you would need more. Testing? Get some pond ice at low speed. Hit brakes? And lower pressure will do better for grip. Most studded tires have sidewall that are very thick. Try 50 psi front and 60 rear, even that seems too high for me. 225lb rider plus gear here.

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Thanks for your reply. As I mentioned previously, all my winter riding is on well-tended pavement (major car commuting routes), and my most adverse conditions are smooth black ice or hard packed snow. If I’m out early in a storm then I might have to contend with new-fallen snow, and very rarely do I encounter frozen rutted snow. So I have found fully inflated studded tires to be suitable. Furthermore, as I previously cited, even on dry pavement I keep the studs on in the case of sporadic icy patches, especially black ice.

Because I’m commuting (with time constraints) / riding for fitness, I want maximal efficiency so I ‘m reluctant to lower the pressure and make the ride “squenchier,” as described by @Archwhorides. Also as described by others, the alleged increased rolling resistance of studded tires seems negligible for the Marathon Winters, as well as for the Marathon 30C tires in my experience. (I also have inserted tireliners in the bikes to avert flats.)

I inquired about testing the studs, because unlike a frozen pond, which I never pass, it’s unusual to have significantly long stretches of slippery road to test the studs. If the surface is that slippery continuously, then I’ll soon find out. :eek: On that previously described slippery slush, I didn’t realize how slippery it was, until I was off the bike walking on the sidewalk.

^^^^ Interesting. North of the city, they plow the MM bikepath, good but leaves icy glaze on the whole surface. Really. I also go through some dirt roads and walking paths too. No salt or sand, post holes at times with the most nasty rutted surface ever. And some other connecting bike paths as well. Been wanting to really test out the studded tire issues this winter with the fat bike and 26x 4" tires. Did not get the combo of either snow, ice and less road salt this winter for that. Maybe the 10 psi or 32x11 drivetrain pulled the plug on that. That and the 17 miles. Next winter.

Forecast of possible ice-rain and light snow later today for the Toronto region. Not taking any chances. Took out the fat bike with studded tires for commute to work.

for those conditions, I like full pressure too