Preferred base layer (wicking layer)
#1
500 Watts
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 833
Bikes: Trek 7200 FX ('05), Trek 6000 ('07)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Preferred base layer (wicking layer)
I'm in Michigan, so pretty soon I'm going to be an icebiker (yay!). I'm pretty up to dressing in layers, but the base layer that needs to wick sweat that I generate - I'm confused. I mean Polypro. is supposed to wick sweat away from your skin, yes, but don't you also use it when exercising when it is hot? I suppose that when protected from the wind by other layers, it allows you to stay dry and thus warm though... is this correct?
Most importantly, though, which brand/material do you guys prefer? Anyone use underarmour? (the summer variety)
Thanks!
Most importantly, though, which brand/material do you guys prefer? Anyone use underarmour? (the summer variety)
Thanks!
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Wicking is good no matter the weather. Riding in a soggy shirt is no fun, riding in a soggy shirt that's freezing cold is less fun.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: northern California
Posts: 5,603
Bikes: Bruce Gordon BLT, Cannondale parts bike, Ecodyne recumbent trike, Counterpoint Opus 2, miyata 1000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
In Colorado I was car-free through 4 winters with a 6 mile ride to work. One or two layers of polypro (all there was back then) with wool over it to serve as a moisture sink and an outer wind shell. At work the wool tights and Jerseys would dry out for the return trip. I never found a windshell, Goretex or otherwise, that could pass water vapor fast enough. In sub-zero weather some areas of wool would start to freeze. It has been twenty years so something has to be better by now. www.foxwear.net has some interesting stuff custom made no less.
#4
Tail End Charlie
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Maine, The Way Life Should Be
Posts: 545
Bikes: Fuji Nevada MTB, Giant OCR1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Last winter when it was in the 30's or lower I would wear 2 polyester shirts (long & short sleeve) & wool sweater under a nylon windbreaker. Below 20 I added a fleece vest. That worked down to 0 degrees.
__________________
Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one?
Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one?
#5
Enjoy
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Seattle metro
Posts: 6,165
Bikes: Trek 5200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by kill.cactus
Polypro. is supposed to wick sweat away from your skin, yes, but don't you also use it when exercising when it is hot?
Most importantly, though, which brand/material do you guys prefer? Anyone use underarmour? (the summer variety)
Most importantly, though, which brand/material do you guys prefer? Anyone use underarmour? (the summer variety)
For starters, you'll probably need (new or used):
* a long sleeve thin wool undershirt
* 1 medium wt or light wt wool zip down or button down sweater
* 1-3 pairs of thin wool socks
* thin wool cap
* soft shell or wind breaker style jacket
* emergency bail out plan if you get too cold or if the weather 'turns'
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 2,538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
A base layer has one purpose.
Get sweat off your body, and push it thru to the other side where it is spread out so it can evaporate fast, or push it thru so and spread it out so it can be picked up by the next layer your wearing.
Thats it. Thats its only purpose. A base layer does not need any any thermal properties at all in order to be a good base layer.
A secondary trait thats often looked for is 'next to skin comfort'. Wool base layers shine here, since even if they dont work the best at the main purpose of wickign sweat away, they feel great even when their soggy with sweat !
Very best fabric I have found so far is silkweight Polartech Power Dry. Nothing I have seen matches this stuff in its ability to pull sweat off you, spread it out, and get rid of it. Its disadvantage is it doesnt have the nice snug fit of undermor, nor as much money in marketing and fasion appeal.
Underarmour works so so, but as vrkelley mentions above, if your not wearing a windproof, your gonna freeze on the downhills.
https://www.mec.ca/Products/product_d...=1157268349335
Best advice on a base layer, silkweight powerdry. (look for the ones with silver thread added for anti bacterial, ie no smell)
best advice on a mid layer, wool.
Best advice on an outer layer, a softshell made with no membrane.
G'luck
Get sweat off your body, and push it thru to the other side where it is spread out so it can evaporate fast, or push it thru so and spread it out so it can be picked up by the next layer your wearing.
Thats it. Thats its only purpose. A base layer does not need any any thermal properties at all in order to be a good base layer.
A secondary trait thats often looked for is 'next to skin comfort'. Wool base layers shine here, since even if they dont work the best at the main purpose of wickign sweat away, they feel great even when their soggy with sweat !
Very best fabric I have found so far is silkweight Polartech Power Dry. Nothing I have seen matches this stuff in its ability to pull sweat off you, spread it out, and get rid of it. Its disadvantage is it doesnt have the nice snug fit of undermor, nor as much money in marketing and fasion appeal.
Underarmour works so so, but as vrkelley mentions above, if your not wearing a windproof, your gonna freeze on the downhills.
https://www.mec.ca/Products/product_d...=1157268349335
Best advice on a base layer, silkweight powerdry. (look for the ones with silver thread added for anti bacterial, ie no smell)
best advice on a mid layer, wool.
Best advice on an outer layer, a softshell made with no membrane.
G'luck
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
thin silk undershirt. really thin like a nylon stocking. super tough, won't rip, warm warm warm...get at llbean
then wool on top of that
silk and wool do not build up a funk...no need for techno fabrics
then wool on top of that
silk and wool do not build up a funk...no need for techno fabrics
#8
Enjoy
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Seattle metro
Posts: 6,165
Bikes: Trek 5200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jarery
A base layer has one purpose.
Best advice on an outer layer, a softshell made with no membrane.
G'luck
Best advice on an outer layer, a softshell made with no membrane.
G'luck
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 2,538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by vrkelley
Jarery, when you say "no membrane", what does that mean?
The reason I say to stay away from a membrane sytem softshell is the same reason people dont like waterproofs, they dont breath enough for aerobic activities. More and more softshells are being made with bi component weaves. Where the fabrics themselves and how tight they are sewn block the wind and moisture. For us cyclists, these work a LOT better. They are usually referd to as stretch woven materials. My favorite is schoeller dryskin. (mec's ferrata is made from this, or ibex climawool is a version of this also)
The non membrane ones always rate at the very top end of any breathability test, and the membrane ones rate at the bottom.
Edit : i've not tried silk base layer myself. I definatly need to try it this winter
#10
Enjoy
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Seattle metro
Posts: 6,165
Bikes: Trek 5200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Because I tend to bike long and hard, the silk layer left me pretty chilly on the decents. Wool with a schoeller dry skin shell seemed to work the best.
Oddly, what worked the previous year, doesn't seem to work the next year. Part of that is due to our winters (sometimes, snowy, other times rainy, other times clear, dry and cold).
Oddly, what worked the previous year, doesn't seem to work the next year. Part of that is due to our winters (sometimes, snowy, other times rainy, other times clear, dry and cold).
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
base layer:
patagonia lightweight capalene top and bottom, smartwool liner socks
insulation layer:
nothing, midweight or heavyweight patagonia capalene top and bottom, midweight or expedition weight capalene socks. mountain hardware andonista or phillips head hat, sometimes a thin balaclava.
softshell layer:
rei mystral pants or arcteryx gamma mx pants, the north face apex softshell jacket
gloves:
black diamond powerstretch, black diamond drytool or some big fat black diamond mittins
rain protection:
marmot precip pants and jacket
severe rain protection:
mountain hardware beryllium park, precip pants and black diamond frontpoint gaitors
added insulation while standing around:
mountain hardware sub zero (just pulled over top of everything else)
this basic strategy has served me without fail for years, from inspections on chicago skyscrapers, mountain biking in michigan, commuting in chicago, snowmobileing in wisconsin and the up, ice climbing north of lake superior and in the colorado rockies, mountaineering on mount ranier and bigwall climbing the diamond on longs peak in colorado.
climbers depend on their clothing systems for survival, and take this stuff seriously. i find this getup to be comfortable, versitile, lightweight and bombproof.
also expensive
patagonia lightweight capalene top and bottom, smartwool liner socks
insulation layer:
nothing, midweight or heavyweight patagonia capalene top and bottom, midweight or expedition weight capalene socks. mountain hardware andonista or phillips head hat, sometimes a thin balaclava.
softshell layer:
rei mystral pants or arcteryx gamma mx pants, the north face apex softshell jacket
gloves:
black diamond powerstretch, black diamond drytool or some big fat black diamond mittins
rain protection:
marmot precip pants and jacket
severe rain protection:
mountain hardware beryllium park, precip pants and black diamond frontpoint gaitors
added insulation while standing around:
mountain hardware sub zero (just pulled over top of everything else)
this basic strategy has served me without fail for years, from inspections on chicago skyscrapers, mountain biking in michigan, commuting in chicago, snowmobileing in wisconsin and the up, ice climbing north of lake superior and in the colorado rockies, mountaineering on mount ranier and bigwall climbing the diamond on longs peak in colorado.
climbers depend on their clothing systems for survival, and take this stuff seriously. i find this getup to be comfortable, versitile, lightweight and bombproof.
also expensive
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 2,538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by euroford
patagonia lightweight capalene top and bottom
#13
Banned.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: I've had enough.
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I live not far from you.
Not much experience in biking in the cold here, but I have been hunting as far north as the Central Yukon in February and let me tell you, that gets cold.
I plan on wearing this as my base layer this winter as I am now going car-free.
Thermal Shirt
Thermal Pants
The pants have a raised seat and the shirt has longer arms and a drop tail which makes them perfect for cycling. I'm sure that these, plus the rain gear I got from bicycleclothing.com as an outer shell will be perfect up until mid November. Then I'll add a layer of wool.
Not much experience in biking in the cold here, but I have been hunting as far north as the Central Yukon in February and let me tell you, that gets cold.
I plan on wearing this as my base layer this winter as I am now going car-free.
Thermal Shirt
Thermal Pants
The pants have a raised seat and the shirt has longer arms and a drop tail which makes them perfect for cycling. I'm sure that these, plus the rain gear I got from bicycleclothing.com as an outer shell will be perfect up until mid November. Then I'll add a layer of wool.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jarery
My second favorite base layer, good choice
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 1,602
Bikes: Pugsley, fixie commuter, track bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I just picked up some Merino wool sweaters from Costco for $20. I'll give them a try this winter as a mid or perhaps base layer.
Craig
Craig
#16
Bye Bye
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gone gone gone
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
wool.
ibex.
ibex.
__________________
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Absecon, NJ
Posts: 2,947
Bikes: Puch Luzern, Puch Mistral SLE, Bianchi Pista, Motobecane Grand Touring, Austro-Daimler Ultima, Legnano, Raleigh MountainTour, Cannondale SM600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Long sleeve Smartwool shirt. Bought two a few years ago for about $40 each. Now they only seem to have a zipper front style for almost twice that. Hopefully I can get another season or two out of them before I need to seek a replacement.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 205
Bikes: Trek 2300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Target has a great line of sweat wicking shirts for about $10 each. I think they're made by Champion. They are 100% polyester, are a tight smooth mesh and transfer moisture very well. Use these as your base layer with light weight Polartec as the next (add another Polartec jacket over this if it's really cold) and a Gore-tex type shell as the outer layer. I've used this combination cycling, XC skiing, running and winter fly fishing for years and it is bullet broof.
FYI: Synthetic fleece is far superior to wool in my experience.
FYI: Synthetic fleece is far superior to wool in my experience.
#19
Bye Bye
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gone gone gone
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by jschatz
FYI: Synthetic fleece is far superior to wool in my experience.
Disagree.
Wool doesn't hold the stink like synthetics do, and wool will keep you warm when damp and wet.
__________________
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
#20
In Real Life
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152
Bikes: Lots
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 596 Times
in
329 Posts
I use either polypro or wool ... or both! Using both together actually works quite well.
__________________
Rowan
My fave photo threads on BF
Century A Month Facebook Group
Machka's Website
Photo Gallery
Rowan
My fave photo threads on BF
Century A Month Facebook Group
Machka's Website
Photo Gallery
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Last winter I used a underarmour winter baselayer (not the same as the summer variety). It was very warm. I really liked it. It was pretty expensive though ($50).
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by edzo
thin silk undershirt. really thin like a nylon stocking. super tough, won't rip, warm warm warm...get at llbean
then wool on top of that
silk and wool do not build up a funk...no need for techno fabrics
then wool on top of that
silk and wool do not build up a funk...no need for techno fabrics
#24
Daily Rider
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 639
Bikes: 89 Bridgestone MB-3, 93 Bridgestone RB-1,93 Bridgestone MB-1, 95 Klein Fervor, 02 BikeE AT, 06 Surly Cross-check, 8? Schwinn Frontier
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Icebreaker or Arc'Teryx merino wool shirts are great. Expensive but great breathability and warmth. Almost as soft as cotton. Not plastic/static feeling as polypro. I hate static cling so I have never been happy with the whole synthentic shirt world. Ick. Always feels like I have a plastic bag stuck to my chest.
__________________
[FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]
2006SurlyCrosscheck]
1995KleinFervor
1993BstoneRB1
2007IROSSBFGS
1986PanasonicDX4000
2014E-JOE
[FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"]
2006SurlyCrosscheck]
1995KleinFervor
1993BstoneRB1
2007IROSSBFGS
1986PanasonicDX4000
2014E-JOE
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 278
Bikes: Bianchi Milano Nexus 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Whatever you do, don't wear cotton thermals! Merino Wool is expensive but you only cry once.
__________________
I miss bicycle commuting.
I miss bicycle commuting.