wogamax

Any opinions on Giordana's Tenax Pro Jacket? I think I've found the best solution and didn't know if anyone's tried it. Its a non-membrane (AFAIK) breathable windproof paneled cycling jacket featuring side panels/pits that are more breathable. Assos and Descente do this, as do a few others. Unlike cycling vests that are just a mesh in the back, these jackets feature a material that lets more air pass back there without making you suffer in freezing temps.

Puff testing has been a litmus test for me and I am impressed by how consistent the puff tests are vs what people write about. Simply put, more breath passes through more breathable fabrics. I've dismissed some stuff on the racks that lets the air run too quick, or not at all. Of course, temperature affects these membranes somewhat, but they should be more open in a store, right? Gore and Gavia (PI) let no perceivable air pass. Event lets about as much go by as the Tenax's "Activa Plus GTB" and other fabrics were more free flowing than "windproof". Lastly, the side panels varied greatly on different garmets. Some go from non-permeable to what would have to be awful free-flow for the real cold, while other materials used as the "venting" portion, like Roubaix, still put up enough fight that real low temps probably wouldn't be too bad.

Am I off base going about it this way. C'mon everybody, its time to play Whack-a-noobie!
TIA

vrkelley

Welcome!

Well what does the store say about you putting your lips on every jacket More power to ya if you can get away with it

How does Tenax do under wet, snowy conditions? ...wondering if the open zips take on water.

Hezz

I thought the Tenax pro jacket looked pretty good but I am going to try out an inexpensive idea after christmas.

Performance bike has a really inexpensive cycling jacket made of polarfleece. Doesn't look real high tech but looks really breathable and it's only 30 USD. I'm going to try one mid weight polar fleece long sleeve shirt next to the skin and then this performance jacket. Then some kind of inexpensive but rather breathable wind breaking cycling jacket.

Pretty much an inexpensive approach.

Portis

The jacket is the most often discussed, least critical item in winter cycling. I make this point because i see it all the time on here. Nothing wrong with spending some money on a jacket, because it will get you nice things like pit zips etc., but all in all unless you need waterproof, just about any unlined jacket you can find will work in the winter.

vrkelley

Depending on conditions, you may NOT want something that breathes too much. Well it depends on the distance. If you're 30mil out and your core shuts down because of wind. rain or cold, suddenly that outer layer has priority.

Jarery

According to https://www.steepplanet.com/proddetai...rod=FORMAJKT06
The material is "The intermediate layer is a WindTex membrane, windproof, waterproof, lightweight, elastic, and breathable." So it is a membrane type waterproof/breathable jacket and not a bicomponent weave style.

It looks good, although looks pretty form fitting for a winter jacket. Make sure you can try one on in a store and not online so you can see if it'll fit your layering underneath.

My guess is it would be good for cold climates, too warm for southwest coast, and would not keep you dry in northwest. So really depends on your location, and wether you tend to overheat, feel cold, sweat, etc.

What elements are you most in, cold, wind, or rain ?

MichaelW

I call this the Huff Test and agree that it is a good measure of practical breathability in windproofs.

Portis

While you are doing this "huff test" also notice how much force you are using to blow air through the fabric. Then realize that that sort of force wont be exerted on the jacket in real conditions. Some jackets allow more air to flow through, i will admit, but known of them, "breathe." While riding, you generate a LOT of heat, the best way to get rid of this is via zippers, nothing breathes better than while it is completely open.

MichaelW

I have a featherweight summer windproof which is fairly permeable to the Huff test compared to my winter windproof. I have tried wearing the featherweight in winter but the cold air just knifes through the material. The winter windproof is a bit too clammy in summer.

Whilst zips can be useful, when the wind is icy you need to shift some moist air but retain heat. I have zippers on my gortex jacket but I really don't want freezing air mixing up with clammy moisture inside the jacket. I am much more comfortable in a permeable winter windproof even though it lacks pit-zips.

Portis

I find the pitzips on my goretex jacket to be very functional. I end up using them on about every ride.

wogamax

Thanks for responses. I am in Boston and go out early in the am during winter, so 10F to just above the freezing point will be the application. I've been using a full windstopper with zips down to 25-27 degrees.

MichaelW wrote:
I am much more comfortable in a permeable winter windproof even though it lacks pit-zips.

Agree, though I didn't notice the Giordana is a membrane according to what Jarery found out. Pit zips, when its 10-20F get chilly, and that they are both necessary and do this is why I was hoping for a slightly more permeable alternative. Windtex, FWIW, does seem to let a little more huff pass through.

I haven't pulled the trigger, yet, and was going to today. No rush. If one wanted to spend the most money, 'airblock" is found in the $569 "fugujack", by Assos. AFAIK, another membrane. I suppose you don't always get what you pay for and that maybe this jacket is a sweatbox, but I do give the company some credit and see a lot of high intensisty cyclists in some of their other partial airblock stuff. Anyway, paneled membrane with side-venting (that isn't too liberal) is a front runner, right now.

[EDIT] about the form fit. It does become an issue, especially when moisture "short circuits" the outer shell. I was getting a nausiating feeling from this with two jerseys and gore-tex. Even a nylon liner becomes important, IMO for a form fit. You need at least some loft for these temps.

Jarery

heh, thats because if your wearing goretex and cycling you NEED pit zips. It just doesnt allow enough sweat out.

The giordana is panaled so it does have somewhere for sweat to get out, but id your looking for a winter jacket to block wind and temperatures id recomend a bicomponent softshell. I have not found any made specific for cycling other than ibex, and theirs for cyclign is fairly lightweight one i think.


Pesonally i wear an Ibex Neve in the winter, both on and off the bike, its my most worn peice of clothing. There are other companies that make good jackets, beyondfleece is another.

https://ibexwear.com/

https://www.beyondfleece.com/

Look for ones made with Schoeller's Dry Skin Extreme like the Cold Play, it will breathe better than darn near anything else. Or move to one of the others if you need more wind protection.

vrkelley

Yeah, it's always good to check around...

There are many well made jackets and competitively priced. The jacket should do more than keep you warm. You might want to consider jacket length, reflectivity and stuff like pockets.

Most jackets lack the reflectivity for biking in that busy Boston area. You can check out the critiques for $150 jackets or maybe post a thread in the Commuter forum asking what other Boston rider's wear.

https://www.bikeforums.net/winter-cycling/151193-worthwhile-sub-150-winter-softshells.html

wogamax

I did see that Boston thread. Unfortunately, most of the jackets have been discontinued. I tried looking for:
Ibex speedplay jacket
Marmot ATV (04) softshell
EMS Apollo
EMS Gunk

Also, many of the links were dead. It's sad there aren't any that are exclusively for biking (reflective, back pockets, etc.). I gave up on the Giordana. There is just too much transition from the impervious front panels to the breezy sides. Like an open door when sub-20F, I bet. That thread did get me more focused on WB-400, Cloudveil and a few others, but I am happy taking suggestions. I'll be reading up on the current EMS line up and BeyondFleece, too.

vrkelley

I got mine from Backcountry. They don't spam ya with e-mail constantly either.

It's warmer than the Ibex wool soft shell. The jacket needs a base layer for temps below 40F and an outer wind layer from 35F and below. It's water resistent and works well with a thin waterproof jacket for heavier rains. The jacket lacks reflectivity so I added my own thin 3-M along most vertical seams. YMMV

Mens https://www.backcountry.com/store/MAR...ml?id=Fb24U989
Women's https://www.backcountry.com/store/MAR...ml?id=Fb24U989

My jacket looks like this and is a 2006. Approxomate mileage 1800.

Jarery

The Marmot ATV jackets look sharp, i came >< that close to buying one. Not cycling specific but you'll be able to wear it everywhere off the bike too

VrKelley, hows yours doing after a years use?

vrkelley

Marmot Changed the materials in the Marmot ATV Jacket
I stand corrected, the jacket stated in my previous post changed drastically.

My Jacket has the Scholler extreme and Coolmax. Who knows what that other stuff is.
The Scholler extreme is tough though. I crashed last week on some wet leaves. Even though my elbow was scraped and bleeding, the jacket didn't rip. The PI ThermaFleece tights fared well also.

dekindy

I bought a Louis Garneau Gloucester jacket. I wore it on a sunny 40 degree day with a DeFeet UnDshirt and a turtleneck. I was very warm and overdressed for most of the ride but unzipping the front of the jacket gave me enough ventilation to keep me cool and dry. Although there are no vents, I could feel air moving through the matierial on the back of the jacket. I am glad the jacket is heavy so it did not puff up when unzipped.

I might have been able to get by without the turtleneck, but was glad I had it on when I stopped at the end of the ride and cooled off while talking to some riders I met. I rode to the ride so no warm car for the ride home. Next time I don't think I will stand around talking when I commute.

I agonized over jackets for two months before pulling the trigger on the LG. After a couple of rides I am still not sure about the lack of pit zips and open back vents because I was overdressed both times. I am new at this and still definitely learning. Overall I think I will like the LG when I get more skilled at dressing properly. Seems high quality for $99 retail.

vrkelley

[QUOTE=dekindy
I agonized over jackets for two months before pulling the trigger on the LG. [/QUOTE]

+1 The stuff isn't returnable so it's worth checking around.

wogamax

40 degrees is not the application in this case. Its an average temp of more like 15-25. The Marmot ATV not only changed, but according to what was said, it would require another outer layer even if it were Schoeller. I'm going to call BeyondFleece and see about Cold Fusion and Cold Play (WB-400 vs Dryskin Extreme). I need an outer for the real cold stuff, and I say that loosely knowing what some of you experience. Otherwise, I'd stick with pit zipped windstopper.

vrkelley

With the zips...as the weather warms up, you can wear that same jacket with less layers and the zips open.

But some zips take on water. I don't have any zips and do not know how to visually tell the difference between the leakers and the good ones.

wogamax

Zips are no good on a bike, IMO, if you can't open and close them while riding. You can tell the new waterproof ones by the hard time they give you. All because those who practically swim in these garmets have put up a fuss about a little water getting through (c'mon, were talking about the arm pit).

BeyondFleece offers water proof and easier to open non-waterproof pit zips, which I will order if I go that way. The have a jacket called the Vayu Plus. It is Schoeller WB-400 in the front (Cold Fusion) and Dryskin Extreme (Cold Play) in the back. They practically tailor their stuff. Check out this entry page:
https://www.beyondfleece.com/customiz...us%20Jacket%2E

So, the cut can approach that of a true cycling (er, racing) jacket (longer sleeves and and torso, with form/tech fit). I have asked, for kicks, if they will cut the back longer than the front. With a little reflective material and the optional back pocket, I think this would be a hot item for the masses who do bike workouts at night, in the winter .

Jarery

I figured you'd like beyond fleece. Its like custom ordering a bike. My problem is i want so many options it becomes outta my budget for another jacket i dont really need

The wd400 on the front and dryskin on the back sounds interesting. If you do go that way, be sure to give us a review of it.

kpfeif

Buy a can of spray paint and spray it into the interior of the jacket. Seal it off around your mouth and inhale deeply. If you feel an intense but short-lived high you should buy it.

Severian

This is a wonderful case where an air-compressor would work very well... zip up the jacket and seal as much of it as you can (ie, zip-tie the cuffs closed) inflate the jacket with the air-compressor and feel around it to see how much air it passes. Wetting it down with a spray bottle of water would also change the wind-resistance of the jacket (or pants) nicely.