vanbiker

I've been riding all winter, and generally can stay warm enough with the exception of my toes. I use neoprene booties when the temp gets below 55 degrees. Lately I've been riding in 32 degrees, and no matter what I do after about an hour my toes are numb with cold. I tried putting some of those "shake-up" handwarmer packets on top of my shoes but under the bootie, no help. I tried duct tape, no help. I put a latex glove over my shoes and under the booties, no help. Two socks, no help. Any ideas?

Machka 

Some more ideas:

https://www.machka.net/whatworks/coldfeet.htm

JusticeZero

Are you sure it's the cold that's numbing your foot? I had a similar complaint, then I realized that the feet got numb on 70 f days too. I solved it by moving my foot position nearer the heel.

Juha

I take it you're riding clipless? The cleat is effectively a heat sink. Also, you should be able to easily fit more insulation inside your shoes in winter, and still have wiggle room. Your regular biking shoes may not be large enough for that. My solution (although this is more for temps like -10C) is to go platform and wear proper winter or hiking boots. Add good insoles, socks as needed (here "good" often equals "wool").

--J

kgriffioen

Had/have similar issue.

First of all 2 pair of socks never helps because you tend to cut off circulation to the foot, so use one pair (I use a pair of "smartwool" socks).

The other thing that I did was to tape a strip of 1" wide weather stripping around the front of my shoe and then put my shoe/toe covers over that to keep it all in place and also so that it doesn't look too dumb.

I have found that this works for me down to 10f to 15f for my 45 min commute.

As others have suggested, movement of your toes is essential to keep the blood flowing.

Good luck as there is nothing more frustrating than ice cold toes.

ejbarnes

My remedy was to pull the insoles out, duct tape, neoprene booties, thick wool socks or two thin pair of wool socks. With the insoles out you will have more room for the socks.
I leave my shoes loose. For the first little while (warm up time) they feel loose. When I get going they feel fine.
This combination works (for me) for 1-2 hours at -10C or less.
Another trick I use when my feet begin to feel cold is to pull up more than push on the pedals for a while.
Hmmmmm. makes me wonder if cold foot is something like hot foot... Just thinking.

Intheloonybin

I'll toss in my 2 cents.

I bought Lake mxz302 boots last winter, and they will keep my feet warm down to 0F without a cover on them. Then I add covers, and this has worked down to -15F. They are not cheap boots, but I would but them again in a heartbeat. I ride clipped in, FWIW.

What is good for my feet might not work for you though.

I found that if I put too many layers in my shoes/boots (tight), it cuts off circulation to my toes.

When I use(d) chemical warmers, I put them on top of my socks over my toes. This works pretty well.

Good luck!

vanbiker

Thanks to all. Since I have always had a little numbness, even in summer riding, I attribute my problem in winter partially to the cold and partially to something else fit-related. I will try moving my cleats forward as suggested. Also, I will try removing the insole and wearing two socks and maybe some of those toe warmer packets. I got new shoes last season thinking that would solve the numb problem-it improved, but did not eliminate it. Frustrating. I really focus on a smooth round pedal stroke, pulling up as much as down. I've switched saddles, and experimented with lowering my saddle as well. In cold riding, the problem is compounded, and 3 hours is about all I can handle. More experimentation is in order I guess.

127.0.0.1

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Asymmetriad

I think they meant for you to move your cleats rearward.

pmt

Really, you need a set of real winter shoes, like the Lakes. Regular shoes are well ventilated and your feet might as well be bare. I find the Lakes are great down to about 20F; below that I like to put one of those flat, self-stick toe heaters in there (I like warm toes!). If it's below 10F, two toe heaters.

If you use heaters, they don't work outside the shoe. They need to be inside the shoe right under your toes with no more than one sock between.

Plus, be aware that actual toe heaters, the ones designed for toes, need less oxygen to get hot than the regular hand warmers. They are also flat so they fit inside the shoe, unlike regular hand warmers.

modernjess

Toasty feet insoles are great, and they nullify the heat sink that comes from the clipless set up. BUT they don't help on the top of your foot. For me they are about a 10% improvement and comfortably stretched my range another 5-10 degrees colder.

I want someone to develop aerogel insulated booties, or aerogel insulated winter cycling shoes.

Eclectus

It seems that your feet are exquisitely sensitive to cold. Have you skied or snowboarded? Or cold-water scuba dived? If so, how did your feet do? If they were unbearably cold, then your problem may be difficult or impossible to solve, but if they were fine, you should be able to devise effective measures for cycling.

When we are cold, vasospasm of the arterioles in our extremities occurs as a means to preserve core temp. Cyclists, particularly young ones, usually prefer to "run cool", in order to avoid sweat accumulation on their torso. Have someone with warm hands feel your belly after a ride, and tell you if your skin feels very cold. They should check your hands and ankles too. If these things are cold, then you may be wise to layer up more to enable your body to retain more heat, which should then increase blood flow to your fingers and toes.

Measures to insulate your head are also critical in this regard, and don't overlook additional layering for your legs as well.

If your belly skin and hands are warm, so loss of core heat is not the problem, a potential problem may be tissue compression from overly tight shoes that impedes circulation. (This would be high on my likelihood list if you have done snowsports or scuba diving comfortably.) Tight fit => higher pedaling efficiency, but you may be suffering an undesired trade-off. Have you tried loosening the front and middle shoe straps?

The problem could be heat loss through the cleat plate, as mentioned earlier. There are "aerogel" footbeds with very high insulative (low heat conductive) properties that should effectively isolate the cleat plate from your foot.

There are electric warmers used by cold-footed skiers and snowboarders, that provide a larger area of warming than chemical warmers, and are worn inside boots right next to your feet, where they do the most good. They are not cheap. A popular brand is Therm-ic which is endorsed by Salomon and Atomic. One source is here:

https://www.winterscomfort.com/index.asp

For passive heat retention, at far less cost, are scuba neoprene socks (not hard-soled booties), available in 3mm and 5mm thicknesses. These provide insulation to the lower leg, and they can easily be cut down to provide just foot, or even mere toe-and-forefoot insulation. Caveat: warm skin under neoprene will get wet and wrinkly.

If you go with electric warmers or neoprene socks you will need wide shoes to accommodate them (bear in mind neoprene only works when its air pockets are expanded), such as Sidi Mega or Lake wide model shoes or winter boots (e.g. Diablos or MXC/CXZ 302), and you may have to remove the footbeds as well to free up more space.

These measures can of course be combined with overshoe booties.

As someone suggested, you might alternatively try using platforms and winter boots, and determine if serious-cold insulation footwear solves your problem. I wear TNF Storm Peak II boots, a lightweight (2+ lb/pair) winter boot that fits into toe clips, and is insulated with the new synthetic down-substitute Primaloft. Toasty. It is waterproof and rated (for normal feet) to –25F. I've worn it at +5F with –15 wind-chill with a pair of Smartwool socks, and been quite comfortable. Normal feet will find this boot too warm above +30F. REI carries them, which means you can return them for a full refund if you test them out and find they don't work for you.

If they don't work then other measures described above by me and others probably won't either, and your only remaining option would be full-on –40F pac boots. However, if this were the case, you should get a medical evaluation to be safe.

Machka 

Yes.

vanbiker

Ok, that makes sense. I will try that today.

vanbiker

wow, thanks for all your information. I believe the bottom line for me is that I have a nerve or blood vessel or ___ that is getting compressed and affecting my circulation to my toes. I notice that even wearing sneakers on a platform pedal my toes sometimes go a bit numb on longer rides. Cold weather makes it much worse. I have tried neoprene socks and over boots, duct tape, plastic, two socks, loose bike shoes, pedal motion adjustments. One thing I have not tried is moving my cleats toward the rear a bit, so I will give that a shot. Also, I do tend to underdress incold weather, but not feel cold except my toes. Maybe I will dress up a bit more and try that as well.

scoatw

1. VBL sock liners are strongly recommended for all sections and are required for over night backpacking sections. They can be difficult to find. In a pinch, a pair of bread loaf bags (2-per foot, per day) will work. Many of us with years of experience have come to realize that even the best of VBLs eventually delaminate and leak so many of us use both the VBL and the bread bags, or two bread bags together. They are worn between your inner and outer socks. They work. Trust us.

Ref: https://www.winterschool.org/faqs.html#8

vanbiker

Appreciate all the advice. I now have some nice new stiff and BIG carbon soled road shoes and my old LOOK 256 pedals I dug out of the garage. Not sure if it was the bigger size of the shoes, the stiffer sole, or the big platform on the LOOKS that fixed my numb toes, but it is good now, very pumped to not have the constant tingling. I miss the ease of entry on my FROGS and the convenience of walking around in my mountain shoes, but this road equipment is awesome and I figure i spend 99% of a ride pedaling and not walking it makes sense to maximize my efforts and reduce pain. My FROGS and cleats will be going on CL soon! Negatives: the LOOKS weigh a ton, and the inside of my left foot rubs on the crank even though my cleats are mounted fully inboard. So I put a couple washers on the spindle before installing the pedals....problem fixed, but I worry it is not strong enough now.

Hezz

As long as the threads are threaded to a depth of 1/2 the diameter of the shaft you have full strength according to standard machinists practices. As far as the thread is concerned. Most likely it is OK unless you have thighs like Chris Hoy.

baron von trail 

Yep, cold toes after "X" hours on cold days is a problem for me as well. However, what was once a problem at any temp under 40 within an hour is now only an issue at temps below 30 after 3-4 hours.

Solutions so far implemented: duct tape over the vents, wool socks, neoprene covers, wind covers (wear them both together, at times), bread bags, and standing up out of the saddle to increase circulation.

I have one obvious problem remaining (other than using clipless and not having "true" winter shoes) my shoes are too tight for double socks and, to be honest, I could use a tad more room in them to better accomodate the wool socks.

I am thinking that next year I will buy a special pair of shoes just for the winter.

riff

I don't like riding clipped in when it's very snowy and slushy, so this winter I got by ok with a roomy pair of goretex hiking boots, wool socks, and chem toewarmers.

This past week, the temps have really plummeted again - however it's been sunny, with dry roads. So I've been riding with sidi diablos, thick wool socks, and toes warmers. When it dropped to minus 20, I added Pearl Izumi amfib mtb shoe covers, and my feet have been fine.

I do notice some coldness in my fingers and toes when just starting out, but as soon as I start hammering harder, everything warms up. I expect that if you are riding gently - i.e. not exerting yourself, you will feel a lot colder. Try picking up the pace, and also make a conscious effort to flex and move toes/fingers.

ianjk

Ride down to -20F with wool socks and loose lacing on my waterproof hiking boots, with clips & straps. Think circulation is the problem.

BobLoblaw

One thing I haven't seen mentioned on this thread is making sure your legs are warm. I always overdress my legs, and it makes a huge difference in how warm my feet are.

Also the cleat as heat sink is definitely a consideration. I don't know what sort of pedals you ride, but I switched from a Time MTB setup to a Look Keo setup with plastic cleats, and it made a noticeable difference in how cold my feet get.

I ride in 20 degree temps here in New England with a lightweight pair of wool socks in my regular cycling shoes, a pair of modified "storm socks" over the shoes, and a neoprene bootie over that. Too much sock = loss of circulation, in my experience.

BL