PaulRivers

I got a new winter bike with disc brakes, an internal hub, and fenders. About a month ago I went biking with a friend of mine who also just got into winter biking with a "beater". We went biking together on the same path, on the same trail - my bike had fenders, his did not. I was...surprised by the results, especially after hearing on this forum all the time how fenders were so essential for commuting and keeping your bike clean in the winter.

Here's 2 pics of his bike at the end of the trip:





As you can see, the front downtube is covered is road crap and the drivetrain itself seems to have some gunk on it, but it doesn't look terrible.



Now here pictures of my bike, the one with "awesome", full coverage fenders -








As you can see it's totally clean due the to fenders and...wait, what? Does it look like someone left my bike outside in a blizzard? There's snow caked on *everything*! Is the rear hub literally caked with ice and snow? Is the rear disc brake stuffed with snow? (thought it still worked just fine). Is even the front fork covered with snow?

See...what happens with full coverage fenders is that the snow gets thrown off the wheel onto the fender. Eventually (as you can see in the last pic) the fender gets filled with snow and the wheel and fender act like a giant snow machine, spraying snow onto the entire bottom half of your bike as you ride along. :-(

Partially I posted this because I though other people would find it interesting, partially I posted it because I'm looking for suggestions. I had already tried shortening the back part of the fenders to be closer to the wheel than the top part of the fenders so that the snow, theoretically, wouldn't jam up my fenders. Any other thoughts? My only other thought is that taking off the full coverage fenders and putting on the "cheap, crappy" mount on by hand fenders might work better...

AEO

put wax or some sort over extremely slippery substance on the inside well of the fenders.

Yan 

Your bike looks remarkably clean compared to your friend's. Try adjusting the fenders so there is more room between them and the tires.

Pig_Chaser

Hmmm, i don't have that problem. I have noticed that my tires tend to 'shed' the snow fairly well, and the faster i'm traveling the better. I don't know how 'vital' fenders are to me in the winter, but i tell you once there's a melt you'll be thankful for them.

NoRacer

No fenders on my K2. Rode it about 8 miles and it looked like this when I was done:



Frame pump is iced over


Front deraileur is iced over - stopped working. Good thing it was in the middle ring


Besides fenders, maybe spraying it down with Pam will shed the slush. (Heard of people using on snow shovels)

Glynis27

I coat my winter bike with some 3M Teflon/Silicone spray before the snow comes and after each thorough washing. Makes all the snow and junk just slide right off. My LBS said it looked too clean to have been ridden daily all winter. I'm not sure if they believed me.

shouldberiding

There are 6,000 different consistencies of snow and fenders help a LOT with many of them.

silver_ghost

+1
Where I live, about 5 months of the year, temps stay well below -15C, so sticky, mucky snow isn't an issue. I've also found that low temperatures and bumpy roads destroy any sort of fender I've tried. For the springtime, when slush and road grime get tossed all over the place, I use clip/strap-on fenders because they offer much wider clearences than bolt ons. With a seat post clip-on, a smallish downtube strap-on job on the seat tube, and one of those front fenders meant for suspension forks that plug up into the steer tube, I manage to stay as dry as if I did have full coverage bolt-ons.

AEO

clip-on fenders... in slushy, wet roads, it really gives a whole new meaning to tasting the pavement.

it's salty and gritty btw.

rep

Close-clearance Fenders are for when it's wet. Sure, they plug up with snow, just like derailleurs do. Wet and dirty/salty= fenders. Clean and snowy=singlespeed. Clean and dirty=singlespeed again.

CastIron

Sometimes it's a lost cause. I find silicone spray keeps things passable. Personally, I'm about to convert to non-winter mode.



After three days in the garage and shaking off most of the snow.

Juha

This is an understatement. Once the snow starts building up there's not much one can do. It might be as simple as OP's bike frame being suitably warm to begin with (causing the snow to start to stick) and his friend's bike frame being colder. Or a number of other reasons.

I've noticed a good mudflap in the front helps too. My SKS fender (and the flimsy contraption they call mudflap) lets quite a lot of spray directly on my feet, front cogs and chain. OP's front fender seems to be longer.

--J

PaulRivers

My frame (green) was, if anything, definitely colder than my friends frame (the white frame). The snow buildup was definitely because of the fenders - the snow built up inside the fenders, then the wheel going around would grind against the snow causing it to fly out of the fender in a powder, all over the rest of the bike. On the bike without fenders, snow didn't get caught in the fenders so it got kicked up by tire but didn't turn back into a powder to coat the rest of the bike.

Putting some wax or something slippery on the inside of the fender is an interesting idea, but other than that I think the fenders at best didn't make things better, and at worst actually made things worse.

After all the hype about fenders on this forum, I was just rather dissapointed to have these results. Fenders *have* kept me from getting the skunk stripe up my back, I'm not saying they're useless, but definitely dissapointing.

BobLoblaw

Fenders aren't all about keeping the bike clean, they're about keeping YOU clean. I suspect your friend was a good deal wetter and slushier about the legs and feet than you were. And your buddy's bike is a lot dirtier than yours, with accumulation on derailers that could lead to problems on longer rides.

Try a slightly narrower tire and moving the fenders away from the rim as far as you can, and do keep the fenders closer at the back than at the front. Also, a mudflap up added to the front fender works wonders.

I also notice that a lot of accumulation on your bike took place on the chainguard. That sucker is like a fender for your chain, and it was doing its job keeping snow and grit away from your drivetrain.

BL

PaulRivers

1. That doesn't make any sense. Dirt and snow that lands on the bike also lands on my legs. And several people have claimed fenders helped keep their bike clean.
2. My friend wasn't wetter and slushier on the legs - it was below freezing, it was all just snow.
3. Clearly, the accumulation on my bike show that here was plenty of snow that would have gotten in the derailler if I had one.
4. I'm already running the narrowest decent studded tire you can buy. The front of the fender was already adjusted to be as close to the wheel as I could safely put it.
5. The fender is already full coverage - not sure how a mudflap would help. Maybe it would, but I don't know how I would add one. :-(
6. Obviously the chain guard was helping, but it wouldn't have needed to help if my fenders hadn't been spraying snow all over the rear of my bike. :-(

orange leader

Fender skirts.

pwdeegan

well, in my experience after riding a full winter with fenders (and disc brakes), i did notice the fenders sometimes filled up with snow (depending on the snow type, temperature, etc.), and there was a powder that got blown back. but in those cases, as in all cases, the blow-back was never wet, dirty, salty grit from the roads on to my BB. the rear cogs did get covered in snow, when the snow was corn or deep; but heck, washing your bike down makes that go away (you are washing it regularly after salt-spray rides, no?)---fenders just isolate the mess.

in any case, even if there is less build-up on a non-fendered bike, doesn't mean that the thrown-back grit isn't burrowing into the drivetrain; it just means, in your case, there's no powder build up. and as your pictures of the first fenderless bike suggests, there's lovely road slime all over the down tube, and likely beautiful chunks of grit in the moving parts.

keep riding both bikes all winter long, and then let us know if there was or wasn't an accumulative difference.

edit: realized, too, that in the falling snow (when the picture below was taken), i have plenty of snow everywhere; but you know, who's afraid of powder. when the snow melted (with the salt, and no without the salt), the bike really was better off.

scoatw

Here is my bike in the snow. As you can see it still gets quite a bit of snow on it. The fenders still keeps the snow off of the top of the bike. Nothing will keep the drivetrain clean. It's just a fact of life. When its like this, I just get a bucket of hot water and rinse it off. I put a Grunge guard on the rear derailleur and it stays clean no matter what.