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Realistic Studded Tire Advice

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Realistic Studded Tire Advice

Old 11-13-09, 10:06 AM
  #1  
labelcd6
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Realistic Studded Tire Advice

I live in the Midwest. We get ice, but it generally doesn't stick around. However, I commute in the morning, so if there's ice on the road, I'm probably going to be on it. The problem is that we'll get ice, and then we won't have any for the next week, etc.

Should I just put on the studded tires after the first ice and leave them on?

How harmful is it to the studs to ride on them when there is no ice?

Is the best strategy to have two wheel sets?

How do you all handle this situation?

Thanks.
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Old 11-13-09, 10:10 AM
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I normally only run a front stud and keep this tyre mounted ot it's own wheel so I can swap it in and out and between several bikes.

The studs are offset so do not interfere with straight line riding when it is dry... and dry pavement will cause the studs to wear out much faster.
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Old 11-13-09, 10:20 AM
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I just put mine on at the beginning of winter and leave them on all winter. I personally don't wish to deal with the hassle of changing out my wheels every other day or so.
Starting my second year on my Nokians. I haven't noticed any discernable wear on the carbide studs.
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Old 11-13-09, 02:54 PM
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Where do you live in the midwest? I live in the midwest, but here in Minnesota ice sticks around forever. :-)

My local bike shop claimed that using 2 different rear wheels might be an issue as the cogs in the back would have different rates of wear, and a worn chain would wear into a non-worn cog much quicker than than somewhat-worn one it started on.

I handle this by having 2 bikes. I have a dedicated winter bike that always has studs, and my regular summer bike with regular tires.

Studded tires with carbide studs hold up well with regular bare pavement use.

Even though I own 2 bikes (well...more actually, but that's what we'll count for this conversation :-)) I actually start riding the one with studs when it starts to reach freezing temps outside, then ride it all winter, not switching back until late spring. I've run into ice pretty late into spring, and was glad to have my studs. I remember last year I biked completely across town and didn't run into any snow and was thinking "Jeez, I should have used my other bike without studs!". 2 miles from my destination I hit some ice on the bike path where the path was on the north side of a wall (protecting it from the sun). I almost went down in the slush *with* studs, because it was so unexpected. When I hit the ice I regained my balance - because of the studs. (it was at night, my lights are pretty good but obviously not quite good enough to spot all kinds of ice)
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Old 11-14-09, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
Where do you live in the midwest? I live in the midwest, but here in Minnesota ice sticks around forever. :-)

My local bike shop claimed that using 2 different rear wheels might be an issue as the cogs in the back would have different rates of wear, and a worn chain would wear into a non-worn cog much quicker than than somewhat-worn one it started on.

I handle this by having 2 bikes. I have a dedicated winter bike that always has studs, and my regular summer bike with regular tires.

Studded tires with carbide studs hold up well with regular bare pavement use.

Even though I own 2 bikes (well...more actually, but that's what we'll count for this conversation :-)) I actually start riding the one with studs when it starts to reach freezing temps outside, then ride it all winter, not switching back until late spring. I've run into ice pretty late into spring, and was glad to have my studs. I remember last year I biked completely across town and didn't run into any snow and was thinking "Jeez, I should have used my other bike without studs!". 2 miles from my destination I hit some ice on the bike path where the path was on the north side of a wall (protecting it from the sun). I almost went down in the slush *with* studs, because it was so unexpected. When I hit the ice I regained my balance - because of the studs. (it was at night, my lights are pretty good but obviously not quite good enough to spot all kinds of ice)
I agree with the above, though on really dry days I do ride my road bike without the studded tires. I would add that if ice only, without much snow are your usual conditions, the Schwalbe Marathons are the concensus choice because they are reputed to have the lowest rolling resistance. I used my first pair last year and I was totally satisfied, even on my worst snow day with about four unplowed inches.

One other useful tip I read is that one should think of ridinfg with studded tires as if walking on sanded ice; good but not perfect traction.
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Old 11-14-09, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
Where do you live in the midwest? I live in the midwest, but here in Minnesota ice sticks around forever. :-)

My local bike shop claimed that using 2 different rear wheels might be an issue as the cogs in the back would have different rates of wear, and a worn chain would wear into a non-worn cog much quicker than than somewhat-worn one it started on.

I handle this by having 2 bikes. I have a dedicated winter bike that always has studs, and my regular summer bike with regular tires.

Studded tires with carbide studs hold up well with regular bare pavement use.

Even though I own 2 bikes (well...more actually, but that's what we'll count for this conversation :-)) I actually start riding the one with studs when it starts to reach freezing temps outside, then ride it all winter, not switching back until late spring. I've run into ice pretty late into spring, and was glad to have my studs. I remember last year I biked completely across town and didn't run into any snow and was thinking "Jeez, I should have used my other bike without studs!". 2 miles from my destination I hit some ice on the bike path where the path was on the north side of a wall (protecting it from the sun). I almost went down in the slush *with* studs, because it was so unexpected. When I hit the ice I regained my balance - because of the studs. (it was at night, my lights are pretty good but obviously not quite good enough to spot all kinds of ice)
I agree with the above, though on really dry days here in Boston I do ride my road bike without the studded tires. I would add that if ice only, without much snow are your usual conditions, the Schwalbe Marathons are the concensus choice because they are reputed to have the lowest rolling resistance. I used my first pair last year and I was totally satisfied, even on my worst snow day with about four unplowed inches.

One other useful tip I read is that one should think of riding with studded tires as if walking on sanded ice; good but not perfect traction.
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Old 11-14-09, 12:56 PM
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I run three bikes through the winter:

I have a longbike for utilitarian riding, my fixed mtb that for apocolyptic conditions, and my hybrid which is great for those cold dry spells we get and early / late winter when it gets really wet and sloppy but when one also wants to make better time. The narrower tyres on the hybrid also cut through slush very well.

The longbike is one of the best winter rides I have... it is very comfortable and stable due to it's extended wheelbase and the weight balance is nearly perfect. I never used studs on this bike last winter and rode thorough some nasty weather with no worries at all.
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Old 11-14-09, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by labelcd6 View Post
The problem is that we'll get ice, and then we won't have any for the next week, etc.

Should I just put on the studded tires after the first ice and leave them on?

How harmful is it to the studs to ride on them when there is no ice?

Is the best strategy to have two wheel sets?

How do you all handle this situation?
It's more a question of personal style than anything else. The best strategy is what works for you.

Lots of people put 'em on and leave 'em on. Some change tires, some change wheels and some change bikes.

If you get decent tires with carbide studs (not plain steel), riding them dry won't hurt them.

My first winter I changed tires with the weather. That got old.

My second and third winters I used two wheelsets. My second set was identical to the first, except that the set with the snow tires had stainless-steel brake rotors instead of plain steel, and I used a 16-27 cassette on it instead of the 12-23 on the set with road tires. This worked really well and is my preferred method. (Bearing in mind its a strategy that fits my personal style best. YMMV.)

I just got a really, really nice set of wheels that includes a dynamo hub to run some more lights. Given the cost, I won't be buying a second identical wheelset for a while, but that's my goal. Maybe for next year.

I'm not sure yet how I'm going to handle it for this year. I think I'll be using a combination of changing tires and changing bikes. Changing wheels is a non-starter because then only half my lights will work.

I also found that with disc brakes, unless the hubs are identical and the bearings adjusted the same, I had to adjust the brakes with every wheel change because the rotor position would vary. (Never had to change adjust the RD, despite the differences in cassettes.) This is why, for me, a second wheelset must be identical. Rim brakes may not be quite so touchy--I wouldn't know.

Last edited by tsl; 11-14-09 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 11-15-09, 11:12 AM
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I've been using Nokian Mount & Ground for two winters and they've been absolutely great. The first 1/2 mile of the commute is on pavement (on a good day) and the rest is on a poorly plowed sidewalk that is either covered in ice, snow, or both (last year it was covered in a thick layer of rough ice all winter):



In these two years, I've never slid on ice, and only had the rear tire start to spin on steep climbs if I pedaled hard. I still have all my carbide studs on all four tires (two for me, two for my wife) and they're still all sharp as heck. The other thing I love about studded snow tires, is that their tread design is much better at both gaining traction in deeps wet snow, and keeping the snow from balling up in the treads.
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Old 11-15-09, 11:17 AM
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Oh, and one other point, Nokian actually recommends riding the tires on pavement for 30 miles before using them as winter tires. I think this is supposed to help expose the carbide steel and make the studs nice and sharp. So, if anything pavement riding improves the condition of the studs, as long as you're using good quality tires.
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Old 11-15-09, 11:53 AM
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My Trek has two wheelsets... when I swap to the winter / cross wheels I also swap the cassette over... the brakes need a very small adjustment as the winter rims are a few mm wider.

All in all it takes less than 15 minutes.
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Old 11-15-09, 03:15 PM
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I do the multiple-wheelset thing. Takes about 30 seconds to swap out a wheel with
a quick-release axle and disc brakes, even wearing ski gloves.
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Old 11-15-09, 03:21 PM
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I just leave 'em all winter. I'm not going to go monkey around in a cold garage to save 2 minutes on my commute. Besides, if it's below freezing there's usually ice...
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Old 11-15-09, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by labelcd6 View Post
Is the best strategy to have two wheel sets?
Yes.
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Old 11-15-09, 09:05 PM
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The best solution is obviously 2 bikes. That's my solution anyway.

6 total but only 2 used for commuting.
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Old 11-15-09, 11:58 PM
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I also put them on the designated "winter bike" and leave them on. If we have such an extended warm spell that I'm sure there's no shadow-frost or frozen snowbank-melt to worry about, I can always grab my Soma road-commuting bike. But my present commute's rather short, and topping the tires off on the Soma would negate the time savings right there, so hey.
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Old 11-17-09, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by labelcd6 View Post
I live in the Midwest. We get ice, but it generally doesn't stick around. However, I commute in the morning, so if there's ice on the road, I'm probably going to be on it. The problem is that we'll get ice, and then we won't have any for the next week, etc.

Should I just put on the studded tires after the first ice and leave them on?

How harmful is it to the studs to ride on them when there is no ice?

Is the best strategy to have two wheel sets?

How do you all handle this situation?

Thanks.

I found this website by accident yesterday - and until then I didn't even know what studded tires were.
Here's the website http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp
And the reason I am telling you about it is because it answers all of the questions you have oh-so-well. I am was really impressed with the site and think it will be useful to you and anyone else with similar questions.

The most useful info I found closer to the bottom of the page; here is an answer from the FAQs -

"Q: Most days in winter there's no ice on the roads. Should I swap out the studded tires for regular tires when I know there won't be ice? Won't my studs last longer if I don't ride them on clear pavement?

A: No. You should put the studded tires on in the late fall and leave them on all winter. If the studs were made of steel, you would need to be concerned about wear. But the tires I sell do not have steel studs. Our carbide studs last as long as the rubber tire itself, so there's no need to worry about stud wear. And, you never know when water might find its way onto the road surface during the day, only to freeze after the sun goes down and you have to ride home from work. It's best to be safe. Leave your studded tires on all winter. Sure, they're a little heavier, and you can hear the studs chattering on the pavement. That's the price of added safety."

Hope this is useful, though probably more than you ever wanted to know about studded tires. :-)
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Old 11-18-09, 08:23 AM
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Awesome. Thank you all so much for your help and advice!
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Old 11-18-09, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by AlbaSurf View Post
I found this website by accident yesterday - and until then I didn't even know what studded tires were....It's best to be safe. Leave your studded tires on all winter. Sure, they're a little heavier, and you can hear the studs chattering on the pavement. That's the price of added safety."

Hope this is useful, though probably more than you ever wanted to know about studded tires. :-)
That site indeed was the most helpful when I was deciding on studs last year. I posted previously on this thread:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
...I would add that if ice only, without much snow are your usual conditions, the Schwalbe Marathons are the concensus choice because they are reputed to have the lowest rolling resistance....
The noise is not that loud, and is actually reassuring to me. One subscriber, Noteon IIRC, described it as "electronic Rice Krispies."
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Old 11-18-09, 12:05 PM
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That's what you listen to music for, to cover the noise of the studs.
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Old 11-18-09, 12:52 PM
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Schwalbe Ice Spiker

Schwalbe Ice Spiker is what I use. For four winter seasons I have used the same set of tires riding on dry snow, wet snow, packed snow, frozen snow, polluted snow, bare ice, snow coated ice, gravel coated ice, wet ice, gravel coated tarmac, bare tarmac, or any mixture of those. No studs are lost, and they are still sharp. I guess the tires have rolled about 1000-1500 km.
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Old 11-23-09, 05:17 AM
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I decided to go with the 26" Nokian Mount and Ground W160s, and I think I'm going to leave them on all winter even though they'll be seeing lots of bare pavement. They were in my price range, so I hope they get the job done. I'll let you all know how it goes.
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Old 11-23-09, 08:23 AM
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I'm a bit late to the party. I too have a two bike setup for the same exact reasons mentioned already, it's easier to decide in the morning which bike to grab. Carbide studs aren't so sensitive to bare pavement riding, that allows me to err on the safe side. As per Nokian the 30 mile / 50 km "break in" period is recommended to make sure all studs are properly seated in the tyre.

There's no need for earphones - the sound of studs is pure music.

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Old 11-24-09, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by labelcd6 View Post
I decided to go with the 26" Nokian Mount and Ground W160s, and I think I'm going to leave them on all winter even though they'll be seeing lots of bare pavement. They were in my price range, so I hope they get the job done. I'll let you all know how it goes.
That's a good choice! :-)

If you decide later you're willing to spend more money for a little less rolling resistance, I would second the other guys opinion that the Schwalbe Marathon Winter's have the lowest rolling resistance of any studded tire I'm aware of. I'm not trying to tell you to change your mind, they cost twice as much and it's probably not *that* much different than the Mount and Ground's or the W106's, but I wanted to mention it (I believe this from some personal experience, and reading the forums).

Also, if there's no snow or ice I've heard it helps to put more pressure in the tire, then when there's more snow and ice reduce the psi. I know it works with the Schwalbe's, I've heard it might work with the Mount and Ground's.

Have fun! :-)
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Old 11-24-09, 11:04 AM
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I put my studded tires one when it looks like we'll get our 1st snow. Shockingly we've had ZERO snow here in the Buffalo Snow belt so far this year. Normally we'd have seen at least some sloppy wet stuff by now. As I got a flat last weekend I took the opportunity to put the studded tires back on for the season. They will be on till at least March. Since we get some pretty good snow fall around here I need the W106 tires. they have deeper tread than the Schwalbe studded tires. In your case look for a Winter tire that has lower rolling resistance as a trade-off for less ability to handle deep snow. There used to be a set of Nokia A10 tires available. Those were still carbite studded, but with significantly lower rolling resistance, but at the expense of not being a good deep snow tire.

Happy riding,
André
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