Burton

OK So since Montreal seems to be having more and more unpredictable thaw/freeze cycles instead of a conventional winter, I decided to cough up the money for some Nokian studded tires at the beginning of the winter.

So I looked at Nokians and Schwalbes and a couple cheap knock-offs that didn`t have carbide studs - just the steel ones. As usual, I ended up buying what was touted as being the best available simply because if I then had any issues - no-one could say ` yeah, but you shoulda bought ........`

And after driving on them all winter through slush, over ice, through snow and on plowed roads - I have mixed feelings. These are the 40-622 size which is the largest size available in that model for a 700 series rim and the only model that might have more studs is the HAKKA WXC300 which I believe isn`t available in a 622 size - at least not in Canada.

No complaints about the tire quality. The studs show no signs of wear although when driving at reduced tire pressures there was no mistaking the sound of those studs biting into the ice or asphalt - whatever was available. A surprise was how easy they were to push. With all the talk about increased rolling resistance with studs etc - I was actually expecting that there would be a noticable increase in pedeling effort. Nope!

In fact snow conditions were always the limiting factor in speed - not the tires. And on bare pavement I had absolutely no problem breaking the local 30km/hr speed limit.

Disappointments? This is the largest size available for a 700 series rim and I`d really rather have had a 50mm tire width. Yeah - I know. The general advice is that a narrower tire cuts through the snow better. Thing is I tried a 26in bike equipped with 26 x 2.0 inch studded tires and like it better. Float doesn`t always mean lack of stability.

And these tires are available in a 47-552 tire size so more than likely I`ll be fixing up a 26in bike as a winter bike next year. Both sizes will handle bare roads or 2 inches of slush or 6 inches of powder just fine. Anything much more than that will stop both of them in their tracks anyway (as well as any other tire I can think of).

Top reason for buying studded tires in my opinion? Guaranteed braking performance under any and all winter conditions.

Top reason for buying carbide studded tires for winter use? Durability. These will last 5 years of heavy use or more. For light ocassional use the much cheaper steel studded tires would be just fine.

electrik

Yeah, nothing wrong with them... good for ice and not too heavy like the larger studded tires.

Burton

OK So today was a confirmation of how little those Nokians actually affect the drive.

This morning I stripped off the composite fenders, 40PSI Nokian 240`s and the wide handlebars and installed VeeRubber City Slickers at 55PSI, narrower handlebars, and went out for a ride without the winter boots or ski jacket or ski helmet. Should in theory made a tremendous difference but - nope!

I could top out the bike if I pushed things, but I could do that with the Nokians too. The biggest difference was the absence of that `snick-snick-snick-snick-snick-snick` of the studs biting into the road. So any reports of greatly increased rolling resistance are only coming from people that have never driven them.

Arcanum

If you want wider, the Hakkapeliitta W106s come in 47-622, and the Extreme 294 come in 54-622 (if your frame and fork will go that wide).

Burton

Thanks for the heads-up on the Extremes - I had actually asked about the W106`s but that size wasn`t available in Canada. Not sure if I can fit a 54-622 in my frame. If they do fit -there`ll be no room for fenders!

PaulRivers

It sounds from your post like your conclusion is based on a feeling like you weren't any faster, not on a speedometer, or one of those hub thingies, etc, right?

Burton

Right you are Paul - just my impression.

And I actually just took one of those speedo/candance thingies OFF the bike so it should have been marginally lighter to boot.

Later this summer I might stick one back on to do some comparisons - but they probably won`t be the `lab` type of testing that some people might go for. I`m getting a lot more practical.

So I`d expect to take the same bike with different tires over the same fixed round trip distance and see if there were any differences in average speed or top speed. IMO that would give a more accurate picture of any real world effects of rolling resistance between any different tires.

Of course I guess I`d have to make a note of what limited the top end on the bike - if I ran out of gears or just ran out of push.

PaulRivers

I would be interested in your result from a trip. I know that after biking on snow all winter I didn't notice that my Nokian 294's were actually making me slower, until I biked with my dad where I usually am out in front of him, but with the 294's I was constantly lagging behind him at anything other than full-out effort.

mercator

I've been running my winter bike (a miyata 1000) with two sets of wheels: one with 32-622 nokian A10s for ice and the other set with 37-622 vittoria randonneurs for the chinook days. To me the difference is night and day, although I think the main difference is the weight of the studded tires rather than the rolling resistance. In any case, I find the studs to be a lot more work to maintain a good speed.

tjspiel

Last year I did some comparisons between different tires including the 240s. I used a speedometer and heart rate monitor to gauge both difference in speed and effort. I don't remember the exact results but while the studded tires didn't slow me down as much as I had thought, there was a definite difference.

Burton

LOL - Now you`re complicatin` things!

At commuting speeds the major issues are rolling resistance and bearing resistance. Unless both wheelsets are identical AND the bearings in both wheelsets are in the same condition and adjusted identically - it would be impossible to determine axactly what was what.

I can notice a big difference myself between a $200 wheelset and a $1,000 wheelset when both are equipped with identical tires.

Sometimes life is overly complicated for no good reason.