How to make the decision to put on studded tires
#26
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Its actually really simple (making the decison). Let me shed some light with a riddle.
The frogs are sitting on a log. One decides to jump off. How many frogs on the log?
Three. Making a decision changes nothing until action is taken.
Ben
The frogs are sitting on a log. One decides to jump off. How many frogs on the log?
Three. Making a decision changes nothing until action is taken.
Ben
#27
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Ans. the same unspecified number as before.
Riddles don't make sense with typos.
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Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#28
Señor Member
That's it exactly. For the most part we don't get much snow (we had an inch today, but it will be gone tomorrow), but you never know where you will hit a patch of black ice. And if you are riding when it is dark out, it is even harder to see before you are on it.
#29
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I remember crewing on a schooner in a very light breeze where we were flying maximum sail area of fairly light sails just to make some way. The wind started picking up and we were debating whether to reduce sails, but hesitating because we were finally making some way. This is a typical kind of decision on big boats, so we really wanted to hold off and enjoy making good speed as long as possible.
Suddenly POP!!!, RIP!! and our genoa was a bunch or ribbons on a string. That's when Hans (the skipper/owner) gave us the best sailing advice ever --- "The time to reduce sails is when you FIRST think about it"
Same logic gos for winter/studded tires. If you think that maybe you should have them, then you should have them now.
Suddenly POP!!!, RIP!! and our genoa was a bunch or ribbons on a string. That's when Hans (the skipper/owner) gave us the best sailing advice ever --- "The time to reduce sails is when you FIRST think about it"
Same logic gos for winter/studded tires. If you think that maybe you should have them, then you should have them now.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
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“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#30
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Good advice guys. I put the studded tires on the front the day after I made my post. I was glad I did because there were some sliding in the rear during the week. I will do the rear this weekend. On my bike it takes a while since it is an electric tandem bike.
These are the tires I have. I have no idea whether it is carbide or not. To me, they look like steel. I just went by the ratings when I bought them last year.
Kenda Klondike K-1014 ATB spike tyre offers at the cycling shop Rose Bikes UK
These are the tires I have. I have no idea whether it is carbide or not. To me, they look like steel. I just went by the ratings when I bought them last year.
Kenda Klondike K-1014 ATB spike tyre offers at the cycling shop Rose Bikes UK
#31
Senior Member
They really don't, unfortunately. Found that one out the hard way. (Then I keep trying it anyway, every year, and ouch). There's just not enough thickness to the ice for the studs to bite.
Something that does help a bit (not very much) on black ice is the soft, sticky rubber compound of dedicated winter tires. Most studded tires have the softer rubber as well and that's where the improved grip comes from. But you still can't make any sudden changes to vector or acceleration on black ice, or you're down in a heartbeat.
Source: 8 winters commuting in Calgary, and falling a lot.
Something that does help a bit (not very much) on black ice is the soft, sticky rubber compound of dedicated winter tires. Most studded tires have the softer rubber as well and that's where the improved grip comes from. But you still can't make any sudden changes to vector or acceleration on black ice, or you're down in a heartbeat.
Source: 8 winters commuting in Calgary, and falling a lot.
#32
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They really don't, unfortunately. Found that one out the hard way. (Then I keep trying it anyway, every year, and ouch). There's just not enough thickness to the ice for the studs to bite.
Something that does help a bit (not very much) on black ice is the soft, sticky rubber compound of dedicated winter tires. Most studded tires have the softer rubber as well and that's where the improved grip comes from. But you still can't make any sudden changes to vector or acceleration on black ice, or you're down in a heartbeat.
Source: 8 winters commuting in Calgary, and falling a lot.
Something that does help a bit (not very much) on black ice is the soft, sticky rubber compound of dedicated winter tires. Most studded tires have the softer rubber as well and that's where the improved grip comes from. But you still can't make any sudden changes to vector or acceleration on black ice, or you're down in a heartbeat.
Source: 8 winters commuting in Calgary, and falling a lot.
What pressure are you running?
#33
Senior Member
Yep, same here--I find that my Gravdal studded tires work reasonably well on black/glare ice with low pressures. I run mine ( which are 700x38's ) at around 35-40 PSI under those conditions.
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#34
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I run my tires at pretty low pressure (35 psi for the Top Contact Winter, 30 for the 26" studded tires; both are per manufacturer's recommendations). I'm not a big person though and that probably makes a difference in the physical contact patch - they're just not going to spread out as much.
Mostly when I have fallen it has been when I had to stop at intersections. So there's the really polished glaze ice plus a change in acceleration. I do find the studs work really well on 90% of the ice I encounter, just not the extremely thin black ice - but I always warn people not to count on the studs to keep their grip on ice. (I talk to a lot of new riders in my job and I forgot where I was posting...!)
Mostly when I have fallen it has been when I had to stop at intersections. So there's the really polished glaze ice plus a change in acceleration. I do find the studs work really well on 90% of the ice I encounter, just not the extremely thin black ice - but I always warn people not to count on the studs to keep their grip on ice. (I talk to a lot of new riders in my job and I forgot where I was posting...!)
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I love 45nrth tires. I don't recommend Schwalbe and Nokians anymore because 45nrth are so much lighter and just as good or even better.
#36
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Good advice guys. I put the studded tires on the front the day after I made my post. I was glad I did because there were some sliding in the rear during the week. I will do the rear this weekend. On my bike it takes a while since it is an electric tandem bike.
These are the tires I have. I have no idea whether it is carbide or not. To me, they look like steel. I just went by the ratings when I bought them last year.
Kenda Klondike K-1014 ATB spike tyre offers at the cycling shop Rose Bikes UK
These are the tires I have. I have no idea whether it is carbide or not. To me, they look like steel. I just went by the ratings when I bought them last year.
Kenda Klondike K-1014 ATB spike tyre offers at the cycling shop Rose Bikes UK
#37
Señor Member
According to the Kenda website, they are carbide: Klondike Skinny (Cross)
That and the noise as the studs go over the pavement - it sounds a bit like the noise when you are riding a trail with crushed stone. Not that big a deal I guess, but it is still noticeable.
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I put a pair of these on my bike over the weekend - the one thing that struck me was the increased rolling resistance (which you are going to find with any winter tire, I guess). One ride on the things and I am already eager for spring to get here so I can go back to my summer tires ...
...That and the noise as the studs go over the pavement - it sounds a bit like the noise when you are riding a trail with crushed stone. Not that big a deal I guess, but it is still noticeable.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 12-01-14 at 11:49 AM.
#39
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I put a pair of these on my bike over the weekend - the one thing that struck me was the increased rolling resistance (which you are going to find with any winter tire, I guess). One ride on the things and I am already eager for spring to get here so I can go back to my summer tires .
That and the noise as the studs go over the pavement - it sounds a bit like the noise when you are riding a trail with crushed stone. Not that big a deal I guess, but it is still noticeable.
That and the noise as the studs go over the pavement - it sounds a bit like the noise when you are riding a trail with crushed stone. Not that big a deal I guess, but it is still noticeable.
The noise is something, as well. I liken it to a continuous zipper, or popcorn popping, or bubble wrap. Since these are decent studs that aren't in danger of wearing out, I just get used to the noise and don't worry what bystanders think.
#40
Senior Member
They really don't, unfortunately. Found that one out the hard way. (Then I keep trying it anyway, every year, and ouch). There's just not enough thickness to the ice for the studs to bite.
Something that does help a bit (not very much) on black ice is the soft, sticky rubber compound of dedicated winter tires. Most studded tires have the softer rubber as well and that's where the improved grip comes from. But you still can't make any sudden changes to vector or acceleration on black ice, or you're down in a heartbeat.
Source: 8 winters commuting in Calgary, and falling a lot.
Something that does help a bit (not very much) on black ice is the soft, sticky rubber compound of dedicated winter tires. Most studded tires have the softer rubber as well and that's where the improved grip comes from. But you still can't make any sudden changes to vector or acceleration on black ice, or you're down in a heartbeat.
Source: 8 winters commuting in Calgary, and falling a lot.
#41
Senior Member
Answered above. 1 set 700X37 Top Contact Winter (non studded) at 35 psi, on flat bar road bike. No falls, but I don't ride this bike unless the weather and the pavement are pretty clear. Foul weather bike is a rigid MTB, running 26 x 1.9 Schwalbe Snow Studs at 30 psi. Fell twice last winter, both times on black ice at intersections when coming to a stop. Have also ridden Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro 26 x 2.2 on a longtail cargo bike and that was like triding a tank.
My point is that studded tires do help a great deal but they can still slip on black ice. So can studded car tires. There is no such thing as a tire that will in and of itself prevent all slips and falls. People who buy studded tires expecting to be able to ride the same way they do on summer tires and clear pavement are not going to get the results they expect. Similarly, people with experience riding in winter who have not yet felt the need for studs, but are thinking about black ice specifically, probably aren't going to get the amount of improvement in grip that they might expect.
Seriously, 8 years riding every day, frequently as low as -30C. I am quite sure of what my tires, and I, can and cannot do.
My point is that studded tires do help a great deal but they can still slip on black ice. So can studded car tires. There is no such thing as a tire that will in and of itself prevent all slips and falls. People who buy studded tires expecting to be able to ride the same way they do on summer tires and clear pavement are not going to get the results they expect. Similarly, people with experience riding in winter who have not yet felt the need for studs, but are thinking about black ice specifically, probably aren't going to get the amount of improvement in grip that they might expect.
Seriously, 8 years riding every day, frequently as low as -30C. I am quite sure of what my tires, and I, can and cannot do.
#42
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Yes, they are not perfect all the time. What is the stud count on the snow studs? My mount & grounds come in at 160 per tire.
#43
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Is it a bad idea to go below the recommended minimum pressure written on the tire? My Kenda Klondike is listed at 50 - 85 psi, but it seems like most of you guys run much lower pressure around 30-40 psi.
#44
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Winter tires tend to have pretty sturdy sidewalls and casings, so check how much the sidewall scrunches up when you put your full weight on the bike. If it's not looking wrinkled and the tire is still on tight enough that it's not going to roll off, it's probably at a reasonable pressure.
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#45
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Answered above. 1 set 700X37 Top Contact Winter (non studded) at 35 psi, on flat bar road bike. No falls, but I don't ride this bike unless the weather and the pavement are pretty clear. Foul weather bike is a rigid MTB, running 26 x 1.9 Schwalbe Snow Studs at 30 psi. Fell twice last winter, both times on black ice at intersections when coming to a stop. Have also ridden Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro 26 x 2.2 on a longtail cargo bike and that was like triding a tank.
My point is that studded tires do help a great deal but they can still slip on black ice. So can studded car tires. There is no such thing as a tire that will in and of itself prevent all slips and falls. People who buy studded tires expecting to be able to ride the same way they do on summer tires and clear pavement are not going to get the results they expect. Similarly, people with experience riding in winter who have not yet felt the need for studs, but are thinking about black ice specifically, probably aren't going to get the amount of improvement in grip that they might expect.
Seriously, 8 years riding every day, frequently as low as -30C. I am quite sure of what my tires, and I, can and cannot do.
My point is that studded tires do help a great deal but they can still slip on black ice. So can studded car tires. There is no such thing as a tire that will in and of itself prevent all slips and falls. People who buy studded tires expecting to be able to ride the same way they do on summer tires and clear pavement are not going to get the results they expect. Similarly, people with experience riding in winter who have not yet felt the need for studs, but are thinking about black ice specifically, probably aren't going to get the amount of improvement in grip that they might expect.
Seriously, 8 years riding every day, frequently as low as -30C. I am quite sure of what my tires, and I, can and cannot do.
#46
Senior Member
Looks like the Schwalbe snow stud has a minimal amount of studs. If you are slipping and falling with these, I would recommend something with a higher stud count. I think you will find most studded tire users do not have your issues. I can ride on smooth pond ice, no issues.
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#47
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I have a dedicated winter bike (well it does do double-duty on the single tracks around town - so when I'm done with single track riding I mount the studded tires). I make the change from my summer commuter to the winter beast as soon as there is ice or snow on the roads. All of my wrecks have happened from riding summer tires on snow/ice. I don't need that pain.