tetonrider

what most folks don't realize is that it takes a TON of time to edit footage into something that others would find interesting. it is not super easy to slap on a camera (not just talking bike races) and record for an hour or 10. most people underestimate the investment (time) required for quality work.

then again, it's no different with writing. anyone can have a blog, for instance, but meaningful content with compelling writing is a whole 'nother matter.

(i see helmet cam footage quite a bit in the skiing world and unless the level of skiing is insane, the angles are unique, and shots are set up (often multiple cameras and proper lighting) -- along with ruthless editing -- it just comes off as the stereotypical japanese-tourist-taking-1,000-stills-of-a-doorknob. in other words, good for some personal use but of limited broader appeal.

tetonrider

hopefully prices on accurate and reliable power meters will come down. unfortunately, we haven't seen all that much of this over the years. we've generally seen lower-priced units that sacrifice one of the two. i remain hopeful.

power2max had some issues when they first came out. they rely on auto zero and have improved a bit in that regard (i prefer meters that are more stable -- not everyone coasts (e.g., during TTs and hill climbs), and further there is no way in the current ANT+ spec to record the zero that is being used with each data point, so that means weird things can happen, even if rare).

it's not true with all models, but i can often get someone an SRM for a very small amount more than they'd pay for a quarq, despite the reputation of a much higher price. if someone gets QBP deals on the models that get rammed through there (e.g. quarq SRAM version), then it is not true, but for models like specialized, cannondale, rotor, shimano, the price differences are less than most people realize.

tetonrider

again, sorry to hear. the good news is that a new riken still can be sold to someone on ebay for a decent amount, so getting a new one back is the optimal time to get out.

hope you didn't lose much meaningful data during all of this, or have any adverse training impact. i have been there.

as a result of this, i got curious and reached into my drawer. i still had a bunch of paperwork from various returns, though i tossed out most of them.

sorry--most of the papers cut off in the pic...there are a ton more. these were from may 2010 to april 2012. customer service was really good, though; usually next or 2nd day shipping.

hack

wow...so, looks like quarq isn't an ideal choice

MDcatV

I don't think i'm astute enough to know if my powermeter is wonky. I have a riken on my road bike and srm on my TT bike and use a garmin 500 for both.

I "calibrate" it on the road bike, get a 0.00 for the torque, hit enter with whatever number shows up (it's usually different for inside vs. outside - I assume due to temp) and go.

On the TT bike, it shows me the prior calibration and the current one, I hit enter, and go.

Herbie53

Dunno if I would say that. Some seem to have really good luck with them. IME the 975 ones went wonky and it seemed to correlate with getting wet. The Riken ones seem more stable and water resistant, but I chose to swap out and try P2Max one. It's a second gen one ("type s") for whatever that is worth.

I mostly like that it fits on my Rotor Crank that I like.

shovelhd

I am a Cat2 and I train between 6-15 hours/wk. The high side is early base and the offseason. The low side is rest weeks.

shovelhd

Unfortunately it was both. Over the life of three different units I not only lost data, I irritated my coach and made some bad training and racing decisions. The last time I absolutely knew it was good was during the run up to Nats in 2012. I was flying, and I have not seen numbed close to that since. We have muddled and fuddled and compared to my Powertap but never really got it right. It certainly was not for a lack of trying. They are great power meters when they work.

tetonrider

i wouldn't say that. some models have been more reliable than others, historically. believe it or not, the s975s were among the more reliable than others. the issue has been in getting one that is good, and then making sure that it stays that way. it can be a little hit or miss.

the general "well, we don't know what is wrong so we are sending you the latest version" is nice and can to some feel like an upgrade, but it gets old having to send the unit in.

in my experience (having personally used many units as well as having sold, set up and serviced quite a few more), the wonkiness is often non-linear and can either get (a) missed by users who are not checking ZO repeatedly in temp-controlled environments (e.g., between intervals while indoors...believe me, you don't want to get to this point but if you do get there what you might see can be markedly different from the simple ZO check before and after a ride) and (b) simply go unnoticed for long periods of time while collecting poor data, which can then inform poor training choices (or just make someone feel like $h!t when they can't hit targets). [there's a (c), but it has to do with most people accepting that the factory slope is right and that it will not change over time. that's not a good assumption for any meter, but it is a better assumption for some moreso than others. a routine, 5-minute check every 6 months is a good indicator of how the meter is holding up.]

the replaceable battery thing sells really well (and it is VITAL on a quarq with the way many units can eat through them).

if someone has a qbp hook-up, then getting a SRAM model is not a bad thing. one won't lose any money if they later make a sale. for anyone contemplating a retail purchase, it is worth investigating if an SRM can be had for comparable money.

i'm still hoping for the day when everyone has a reliable, accurate meter on their bike for $500, but there is a reason it hasn't happened yet.

i actually sell and service various power meters (and as a geek i am often the one who is early to investigate anything new on the horizon)--but after years of struggles the only ones i currently​ choose to use are SRMs.

tetonrider

i know that pain. with as much time, money and emotional energy (most) racers invest in the sport, it .

unfortunately, every power meter company has copied the same % accuracy statement, and for people newer to those devices it is logical to think "if i can get the same thing for more or less money, then why would i pay more?"

ultimately, the cost is higher. losing months and years of meaningful comparison data (i have) is painful.

the good news is that when you make the switch, you will realize how much less time you have to spend fooling around to get things right.

no brand is completely immune to problems, but some are less prone.

jsutkeepspining

Ne me sass pas femme

ips0803

I think you'll be happy with the p2m type s from what I've seen (which is limited). The early p2m temp issues were resolved.

revchuck 

In my crash the weekend before last, I managed to crunch the nameplates on both DA 7800 shifters. Replacing them will cost almost what I paid for the shifters ($125 used). The one US shop that lists them as in stock says they can't be shipped, though I can buy them online. The other places are in the UK, and are more expensive. Grrr....

mattm

Powertap is the best one! At least for me.

mattm

Or Norcal.

revchuck 

The bearings went out in mine at about 12k miles and I had to do the $350 upgrade because it wasn't repairable. The electronics were fine, though, and the original worked and the upgraded one works without drama. The positive reviews on the current version of the Power2Max make it interesting.

Gramercy

Wow, I had no idea there was so much to learn about powermeters and there were many different brands. Where is a good place to read up on them? What is the starting prices for them? More than $1k?

shovelhd

The Training with Power thread. $400-$3,800.

waterrockets 

Yeah, my two are generally reliable, and the price is right (I'm running old SL wired).

dz_nuzz

Its funny how people can have such different experiences with Quarqs. When I got mine I was like waiting for the other shoe to fall and kept expecting my unit to die since it's offset was right on the border of an acceptable number. But two years later that number has been consistent and my friend who got the same unit as me has had no issues either.

One thing I find interesting is that shovel has been having issues with a Riken and an older S975. I on the other hand have a SRAM Red Quarq which is more comparable to the Elsa I think (Features left/right balance). I am sort of curious if anyone has had issues with any Elsa or Red units, perhaps SRAM does a better QC job on the higher end units than the "lower" end units? (Not that any of this stuff is low-end mind you).

Herbie53

My Powertap lasted less than a season and had to go back for a new torque tube. That was my first power meter and so far holds the record for shortest lifespan. YMMV.

shovelhd

Doper.

Herbie53

Dopey might be a better description. My wife is running Boston Easter weekend. I think I saw that there is a race at that park I did the Cat 5 at a few years ago that weekend. I might try to work the logistics... her agenda comes first though, she's all souped up on goofballs.

globecanvas

I feel like we are a year away from the holy grail of an accurate, reliable, convenient power meter for $700. But I felt that way last year, and the year before...

Given the eagerness with which Quarq and Stages replace units, I have to think that their margins on the units are astronomical. From anecdotes (including my own) it seems like those companies must produce at least 2 units per unit sold, and they are still in business.

For that to be a viable model, the cost of producing the things must be embarrassingly low. Doesn't it seem like there could be a similarly viable model where the margins are much lower and reliability is better, without increasing the retail cost?

thechemist

I have had issues with the "higher end" quarqs. I have the specialized spider left/right balance etc.

Nothing major but I went through a battery in about 3 weeks(some nasty weather) and if I get big temperature swings the manual zero will be off. Slope is fine but when it was teh dead of winter I didn't like seeing a shift of 40 points from when I started and ended my ride. So, no real issues where I need to send it in but if it goes from 25 to 50+ degrees you best believe I will be auto/manual zeroing during the ride. Luckily that happens in base.