FBinNY 

This is a tricky question. There's a difference between perceptions and reality. Segregation certainly offers an illusion of safety for nervous cyclists. It may also offer real safety for those who don't know about door zones, can't hold their line, or can't check traffic without veering to the side. But it may also increase the hazards at intersections, and combined with the illusion of safety may make things worse.

IMO- a key consideration is the ratio of straight stretches with passing vehicles to intersections. Also the speed of that passing traffic. So while segregation might make sense in some places, it may not in parts of NYC with 20 intersections per mile.

When I lived and rode in Manhattan, I loved heavy traffic which made me the passing vs. passed vehicle.

In any case, bike infrastructure threads are borderline pointless. Most people here have preconceived ideas on the subject, and just hurl the same arguments back and forth over the gulf.

kickstart

I appreciate what you're saying, I was just curious if people are actually using them.

I've noticed the personal opinions expressed here on all sides of the infrastructure question rarely reflect the real world. I see on a regular basis fully kitted roadies riding on sidewalks or bike lanes, senior citizens and kids riding in the lane with traffic, and many other choices that don't fit neatly into any particular ideology.

FBinNY 

Yes, the majority of cyclists are using the bike lanes, and I suspect that most of them are happier riding in bike lanes than in mixed traffic. But I'm not convinced that there's a good correlation between use and happiness, and actual safety.

Matariki

Crotch view camera angle was interesting. I agree with a lot of what the guy said; however it is easy to criticize when you are not compelled to provide a solution. I have never been to NYC but it seems rather progressive compared to some cities I have cycled in.

Matariki

Wow, "crotch" passed the censors, but they would not accept the first name of the person referenced in my signature! Go figure!

kelsodeez

cycling is screwed up in any city. its just massive congestion thats the problem. personally, i cant wait for gas prices to go back up so there will be less cars on the road

also, hey op. sup doe

dynodonn 

On how to interact safely with other road users, on being able to read traffic conditions and riding accordingly. This cyclist gives me the same impression that a number of motorists do, in that they are more concerned about getting to their destination, rather than the journey at hand. The cyclist narrowly misses pedestrians, is poor at assessing up coming conflicts, such as walkouts, and with turning vehicles, plus riding at speeds not favorable to the current condition,..... basically ramrods his way through NYC streets.

FBinNY 

Of course he might have been doing all that intentionally to highlight the issues in his video.

spare_wheel

Why the heck are you advocating for this type of sub-standard infrastructure? This type of facility was tried in europe and is now universally considered sub-standard (and reviled by cyclists). Sadly, cage-separated bike lanes are promoted by planners not because they are necessarily an improvement over mere paint on the road (e.g. enhanced bike lanes) but because they add or preserve cage storage spaces.

Europe tells us what works when it comes to separation:

1. Low curbs/barriers or genuine off road segregation.
2. Signals and/or channelization (of cars) to prevent intersection conflict.

PatrickGSR94

What I meant when saying "coming out from behind parked cars" is when he was in the protected lane to the left of parked cars, and then the parked cars ended at the intersection. 3:30 and 4:20 both have cars turning directly in front of him.

I think at least a couple of cyclists have died in Seattle because of these dumb@$$ separated lanes on the left side of the street. Eventually someone will die on this infra in NYC if it hasn't happened already. Is it really worth their lives?

Hey look, a post from @spare_wheel that I agree on! First part anyway. Takes much more than just the European-style of infra to make it work.

dynodonn 

That thought crossed my mind as well, though I feel it lessens the cyclist's credibility even more so if done intentionally.

spare_wheel

Are you convinced that there is safety in numbers?

This infrastructure is not for you. It's also not for the 2-6% who are willing to "drive" a bike in traffic and its most definitely not for the 1% who cycle like Joey and I.

kickstart

So the question is, does the desires of 3-7% of people who cycle now quantify the value of less than perfect cycling infrastructure for the other 93-97%, plus those who are likely to take up cycling as infrastructure grows?
The infrastructures for other user groups don't always accommodate the desires of all users, and aren't idiot proof either. Regardless of user group, the objections of some often sound more like bravado than anything else.

English3Speed

Personally, I think the original video is a bit heavy handed but my observations of NYC support his general argument. All the traffic I've seen in Manhattan is slow enough that bicycling could be safe without bike lanes if bicyclists had a legal right of way that police and drivers respected. Mandatory bike lanes take legal rights to use the road from bicyclists, but the congestion still keeps motorists from driving any faster.

This winter the bike lanes looked like they were built to get obstructions out of drivers' way (snow, dead Christmas trees, bags of trash, etc.), not provide space for bicyclists.

Being new to NJ/NY, I was (am) also confused by the protected lanes at intersections and turning motorists. A NYC bicyclist I asked told me that technically NY state law gives the right of way to bicyclists, but pointed out:
a. Out of state drivers often don't know bicyclists have the legal right of way
They may not expect bike lanes on the left

b. Some NY drivers know but don't care and just refuse to yield
(This has been my experience more in Brooklyn than in Manhattan

c. Many drivers can't see bicyclists hidden by parked cars ("protected lanes")

This bicyclist was aware of the hazards (riding in NYC for 50-60 years), but was still hit by drivers that didn't yield. (My impression was no significant injuries, I suspect low speed.)

When I first saw the left side lanes a few years ago (with separate bicycle signals), the bicyclists' green light was routinely ignored by motorists turning left on their own red, including NYC police and taxi drivers.

The original video did comment (4:42) that the bike lanes are not mandatory in New York, unlike Philadelphia; this is the opposite of my understanding. Philadelphia did have a mandatory side path law but repealed in in early 2013. Philadelphia bike police said the lanes were never mandatory (but that other police did not know this and sometimes ticket legal bicyclists).

However, I often see references to the NYC lanes being mandatory, including the Casey Neistat videos. Personally, I don't see how facilities can help if motorists never have to yield to bicyclists or pedestrians, and aren't held accountable if they hit them.

katsrevenge

It's for people like me. No way in hell would I want to go anywhere near that traffic....but I'd ride in those bike lanes.

Even so I bet my SO would take out life insurance. He doesn't like me on the roads out here and they are fairly safe.

SHBR

Seriously, there is hardly any traffic to contend with in the original video. In Shanghai, I encounter thousands of bicycles, e-bikes, motorcycles and pedestrians on my 12km commute. I will agree that narrow (1.5 meter or less) segregated bike lanes are a bad idea. Nothing worse than being boxed in, sure you can stop to avoid hazards, but what about the people behind you?

This is what I call traffic:

snow_echo_NY

that's interesting that the European model works a lot better (low curbs) - i agree this is the best form of infrastructure having ridden in it in Amsterdam. it's really another world.

and yeah that makes sense parked cars block visibility and shouldn't be there to begin with. but in NYC there are a lot of people who hate cyclists and love their cars. the motorists outnumber us for sure. many of them are not city dwellers and coming from NJ, LI, Westchester, etc. but many of them are from the outer boroughs too. if it helps, they have backed off parked cars from intersections. so the parking ends maybe 25 feet or so from the start of the intersection. i know. it's nothing.

but the alternative - what we have now, is parking lanes next to the moving lanes. which account for LOTS of dooring. and no one respects the cycling lane, they all double park in it. and they swerve into it b/c no one respects each other on the road - it's far worse and much less safe.

the city needs to do away with parking on the street or if they do have it, to charge a lot more to pay for parking and to make parking tickets way more expensive. real estate is expensive and they're pretty much giving it away.

snow_echo_NY

New Yorkers who cycle mostly just want to go about their business. there are very few people involved (compared to the cycling public) in advocating for change. that said the percentage of pedestrians is even smaller. there is pretty much no pedestrian organization even tho they are the majority in NYC. TA (transportation alternatives) is bringing pedestrians under their umbrella, but most people i meet thru TA are cyclers.

and yes, it's important that more people get involved of course. we are met with people on the other side who outnumber us. the MTA drivers union wants to do away with the Right of Way law advocates JUST got passed. they want to basically make it legal for MTA bus drivers to run over pedestrians even tho pedestrians have right of way in the crosswalk. yes. New York City is incredibly backwards. turning vehicles either don't look or don't yield and don't care. it's beyond bad. basically, any motorist can kill on the streets and get away with it. it's lack of citizen action and police inaction. again, it's beyond awful. i don't know of any other place in the u.s. that allows for that. making sure the Right of Way law stays around and is does not get exempt for MTA drivers is probably first priority right now for all New Yorkers.

it's a REALLY aggressive culture here, everyone is fighting for space and to move faster than the next guy and not get stuck in traffic. but it will never happen as there is always traffic. motorist traffic is up, subway ridership is up and there is no infrastructure to accommodate more people. lots of people i talk to are turning to biking b/c there is no alternative where they live. not because they enjoy it.

former Mayor Bloomberg tried to get congestion pricing to support the infrastructure issues and to reduce congestion. but many in the state opposed it saying those who are poor would get the short end of the stick. well, not charging for congestion is choking the city. literally.

MTA and state legislature pay their own pockets rather than update infrastructure. it's horrendous. our bridges/tunnels and roads are over 50 years old. if there's another collapse or huge infrastructure disaster as a result i won't be surprised. they're finally getting to construction on the BK and Manhattan bridges this year. Long overdue.

mostly TA (transportation alternatives) and other grassroots organizations (families for safe streets, right of way advocates) are the ones fighting. but we are basically fighting to get the attention every councilman and councilwoman in NY and every member of assembly and of senate for the state. many of them, they don't know or don't care what a huge problem this is - their constituents don't speak up, so why would they care? i get it. we have millions of people here, more than any other u.s. city, and not even close enough funds to support it. the state won't give it to the mayor or the city. neither will federal. everything about our streets is crumbling to a very obvious degree.

in any case. just to give you a clear picture of what's going on.

intransit1217

Can someone explain the thinking of left-side bike lanes?

Also, being as congestion makes it safer due to slow vehicle speed, what happens when half the cars are no longer there to create the congestion?

Just trying to think ahead.

snow_echo_NY

it is far safer to cycle in NYC with a bunch of other people cycling too than it is to do so alone... for example, the days that it rains and pours (like yesterday afternoon), i'm nearly run over at least several times. it sucks. but i've gotten extremely good at braking super quickly. the days it's nice and sunny and all the cyclers come out, i almost never have a problem. pedestrians and motorists are more aware.

then there's always the cycler on the bridge or path who thinks it's awesome to cycle while head bent down to look on their damn phone and swerving all over the lane. sigh. it amazes me, the level of dumbness New Yorkers will exhibit.

FBinNY 

Keeping to the left on one way avenues has been SOP or NYC bicyclists for over half a century --- well before the advent of bike lanes. Probably the single largest reason is buses, which drive the right side. So would you prefer the side of the road with buses pulling to and from the curb every few blocks or the unencumbered left side of the avenue?

With the move to segregated bike lanes, having them on the right would be impossible.

intransit1217

Oh wow. Ok then. I wonder why london does that when their busses are on the left. Man this whole thing is a logistical nightmare for all of us.

snow_echo_NY

if you guys can sign, here's the latest from Paul White. if you believe in change, sign up for emails from Transportation alternatives so you can sign these petitions as they come.

With her body, she barricaded her children from oncoming traffic.and the indignity of being forced to blockade your children simply to cross the street…that’s unforgettable



Fifty percent of the traffic crashes that kill and injure New Yorkers occur on the same type of streetTake action now.

Please take action to tell Mayor de Blasio, “I don’t want to die on an arterial street.”
Paul Steely White
Compared to all that, this is a simple request.Tell Mayor de Blasio, “I don’t want to die on an arterial street.”


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(Scroll down to check out the photos.)

And your activism is working.Can you back them up this weekend?

Pledge your support for the campaign to fix New York’s dangerous streets:
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FBinNY 

It just proves that New Yorkers are more practical. We not only allow, but actively encourage bicyclists to ride to the left on one way streets. It makes more sense on many levels besides the issue of buses.

For example, it (in theory) reduces doorings, since every car has drivers who exit, but only a small percentage have passengers, so fewer doors are opened into traffic on the left side of the road. Drivers also have better sight lines on their left side so passing is safer, and left turners have smaller blind spot issues.

snow_echo_NY

yes this is all true. remember for London, all the drivers sit on the right of the vehicle, not the left. i would imagine the same for a London bus, so it makes sense it lets their passengers on and off on the left side.

and it makes sense their infrastructure is opposite of what we have in NYC.