noglider 

I hope you'll forgive me for not getting upset over NY's laws. I hope Complete Streets becomes policy everywhere. I think the practice of making sensible roads will make more difference than how laws are worded.

genec

I don't know that Complete Streets is the answer... but it is a change in the right direction. It adds priority to other than motor vehicles.

I also tend to agree on your statement RE the laws... largely due to the fact that so few really know them... including LEOs and Judges.

noglider 

"The" answer to what question? Do we all have a common goal here?

genec

Good question... I don't believe "we" do all have a common goal... mine is to see more people riding bikes... Some 29% of the population works within 5 miles of home... if just 1/3 of that group was cycling, we'd have about a 10% modal share of cyclists in this country. I don't think that is an insurmountable goal... and I think the results of cleaner air, less dependence on foreign oil, and a healthier population are worth trying to achieve.

I don't know that "Complete Streets" will get us there.

And that "we" aspect is not shared by everyone here... some folks are firmly in the camp that cyclists need nothing to use the roads as is.

noglider 

Thanks for clarifying, @genec. I was a volunteer bike activist in NJ. A friend and I co-founded a non-profit to promote cycling in our locality in NJ. We made some progress. We got our towns to pass Complete Streets as a policy. We got some lanes and sharrows painted and some signs erected. We got people out on "family rides" and similar events to show them that they could go useful places on bike, without a car. It was mind blowing for them, even though the distances were short. I would often tell people that most trips that people take in this country are three miles or less. That distance does not require a car for most people most of the time. And when worded that way, most people can agree. But in suburbs and many cities, taking the car is the action that occurs from the least amount of thinking. It's just the default thing to do. I even had some neighbors who would drive their kids to a play date around the corner. Now, that's demented, but it's an extreme case.

So I do share some goals with you. I guess since I moved and stopped working as an advocate, I'm less frothy at the mouth about the whole advocacy game. Not only that, I am very placated by my situation. NYC is a lot bike friendlier than where I lived and a lot bike friendlier than it used to be. I hardly ever drive a car any more, and I am elated about that. Bike usage is not as high as I think it ought to be for a healthy society, but 1, it is visibly on the rise here, and 2, I get to see hundreds of bike commuters every day. Riding a bike to get places is not radical or weird here. I feel I don't have to shout my message from the tops of hills any more.

I borrowed my wife's car on Sunday, and I couldn't find a parking spot on the street where I could leave it on Monday. Street cleaning was to happen between 11am and 12:30pm, so I had to move it. The most convenient way of preventing a ticket (and towing) was to drive it to work, so that's what I did on Monday. It is striking to see how people get sucked into car commuting even where it isn't necessary. I got to work faster than I would have if I had ridden my bike or taken the subway. Those are the two modes I usually use. Each mode takes 60 minutes, whereas the drive took about 30 or 40 minutes. The extra cost is largely hidden, and free parking on the street amounts to an unfair subsidy to car owners. There should be disincentives to driving. The previous mayor proposed congestion pricing, but he wasn't able to pass that. My wife would have been affected, so she's happy, but in the big picture, it's what we need. We also need to get rid of free street parking. There are far more trips taken by car in NYC than by bike. That is quite evident. And this is in the city where people drive less than any other city. Many people here don't own cars.

squirtdad

Ok I am going to get a little zen here... but for me anyway riding a bike always put's a smile on my face, errands in shorts, commute in shorts and gloves, long ride in kit an elf shoes.....all make be smile.

I really noted on my commute to day, that when commuting part of this joy is being mindful in the moment. I am involved, but all i am doing is commuting, not thinking about work or any thing else. The commute it includes watching out for drivers, sprinting to make a light, saying hi to the crossing guards, etc, but that is all part of being mindful in the commute.

If we can get more people to feel that, more people would ride.

best place to start is to get people to do the 1-2 mile errands. and then reel them in to short commtes, etc.

I dream.

today to facilitate a new rider, I helped co worker find a route from a train (some people in Silicon valley do talk them) to work, look for folding bikes (thereby setting my self up to help fix one up if he get's it)

so to repeat : Lead by example, Ride, and help people ride

mr_bill

814.420: Failure to use bicycle lane or path; exceptions; penalty.
...
(2) A person is not required to comply with this section unless the state or local authority with jurisdiction over the roadway finds,
after public hearing, that the bicycle lane or bicycle path is suitable for safe bicycle use at reasonable rates of speed.


Has *any* bicycle lane or bicycle path been found after a public hearing suitable for safe bicycle use at reasonable rates of speed *anywhere* in Oregon?

Crickets....

-mr. bill

spare_wheel

I live in Oregon and I can assure you that multiple court decisions have found that city council/transportation department bike plan meetings fulfill the "public meeting" requirement.

Judge dismisses Medford man's protest over citation for leaving bike lane - BikePortland.org

mr_bill

"Smith, who represented himself...."

And there are also multiple court decisions that have found that they are *NOT*....

-mr. bill

spare_wheel

And I live in Portland where meetings that led to the 2030 bike plan are considered to fulfil the "public hearing" for all bike lanes.

mr_bill

Then get advocating for repeal. You'll find it liberating.



-mr. bill

Coal Buster

Why wouldn't they? They're advertised and scheduled monthly. What do you guys expect? an engraved invitation?

trunolimit

So I've been biking in New York for about 4 or 5 years now.

I've found the real hazards are pedestrians. It's completely a New York thing. People here are use to just walking out into the street without looking both ways. Go to any other city and people take crossing the street very serious, not in New York. People that live here don't drive so they never learn how to respect the road. As a driver you know very well how dangerous the road is. As a cyclist you also learn to respect the road way. As a pedestrian you don't care.

My biggest fear is car doors. I've been struck by a car door twice.

spare_wheel

I have and continue to do so. Currently, the chance of repeal is effectively zero since many influential bike advocates support the mandatory sidepath law.

spare_wheel

Bike lanes in down town Portland are chock full of pedestrians.

Jaywalkers and kamikazee pedestrians are really common here too but I love them. The less predictable pedestrians are, the safer it is to bike and drive. Human traffic calming!

trunolimit

What are your guy's thoughts on wrong way bikers? Bikers that are going the opposite way they are suppose to be going? I do it on occasion but if I'm going the wrong way i always go out of my way to avoid the other cyclist. I expect when it's reverse the wrong wayer will go out of their way to make way for me.

spare_wheel

I think it's OK for a block or so on downtown grids where following the law requires a multiple block detour.

People who do this are often clueless so I try to educate.

trunolimit

There is one part on the Brooklyn side of the williamsburg bridge that people love to wrong way it. I've had several crashes because cars usually park on that corner so you are blind to oncoming traffic (which there should be none since it's a one way). I've learned to go wide on that corner.

snow_echo_NY

i have to agree, doorings and oblivious or jerk pedestrians are a total hazard in NYC, but i see more and more pedestrians wary of me when i'm on a bicycle which is sad, they are giving me their right of way b/c they don't want to be hit, by a car or a cyclist. well, if you are a pedestrian and are in a crosswalk, you have the right of way - and i will wave the pedestrian thru to acknowledge that. cyclists and motorists should both yield in that situation but more often times than not i don't observe that. i see cyclists and motorists taking right of way that is not theirs to take.

people here are greedy and/or @$$holes and take right of way from you when they're not in the legal right to do so. but b/c a lot of motorists are bigger (and more deathly) than both cyclists and pedestrians, and b/c cyclists are faster than pedestrians. that's not cool. everyone is subject to the rules and should respect the rules otherwise it gets messy too fast. for example, before i pass, i make sure there is no oncoming traffic on the bike path before i do so. but - not everyone does this, people do whatever they want and it just sets everyone in the vicinity up for a risky situation that could otherwise be avoided. not necessary.

wrong way: if the path is clear i will take wrong way if it gets me where i am headed. if it is not clear at a certain point and someone is coming, i stop pedaling, hop on the sidewalk and walk. it's not all too difficult to do that. i know i'm in the wrong way so i'm not going to aggravate others who are utilizing the path the right way. why? i feel this is really basic common sense and people should acknowledge and recognize.

pedestrians first. we are all pedestrians and we are our weakest as walkers so...pedestrians first. then cyclists. then drivers (last). (i'm all 3 of these things.)

noglider 

Last night, I encountered over 20 wrong way cyclists. It was dark, and whether they were going to go left or right as we approached each other was far too unclear. It really messed up my mellow, so to speak. I'm going to see if I can complain and be heard. Wrong way cycling is getting out of hand here. Too many people think it's just fine for any distance. Why am I supposed to figure out what to do when someone comes towards me the wrong way? The wrong way means, by definition, that their behavior is undefined and unpredictable. I don't have a duty to endure that kind of uncertainly. The point of traffic is to inject predicability in the way we move among each other.