THIS is what we as cyclists do not do, for the reason shown...
05-15-15, 01:42 PM
#151
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
05-15-15, 01:45 PM
#152
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,273
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4257 Post(s)
Liked 1,358 Times
in
942 Posts
He is saying that we live in an imperfect world and that confronting anyone with the finger invites a fight. That is the way the real world works. You can talk about laws and implied consent all you want. Giving someone the finger 4 times and expect some sort of confrontation. Memorize that. There will be a quiz Monday.
Sounds like you are barely in control of yourself if a silly hand gesture can set you off. By the way, what is or isn't protected as free speech doesn't depend on what you personally find "obscene "
Last edited by njkayaker; 05-15-15 at 01:50 PM.
05-15-15, 01:49 PM
#153
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: D'uh... I am a Cutter
Posts: 6,139
Bikes: '17 Access Old Turnpike Gravel bike, '14 Trek 1.1, '13 Cannondale CAAD 10, '98 CAD 2, R300
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1571 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times
in
9 Posts
Equally wrong. What a concept. I've never heard that before. I assume you have some gradient measuring device of some sort that can determine the magnitude of "wrongness". Pictures please!
05-15-15, 01:54 PM
#154
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,273
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4257 Post(s)
Liked 1,358 Times
in
942 Posts
On one side, there were few silly rude hand gestures.
On the other side, there was illegal, aggressive maneuvers with a vehicle (including the initial agressive unsafe pass) and other forms of assult.
On what weird planet are these equally wrong?
05-15-15, 01:54 PM
#155
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Looney Tunes, IL
Posts: 7,398
Bikes: Wabi Special FG, Raleigh Roper, Nashbar AL-1, Miyata One Hundred, '70 Schwinn Lemonator and More!!
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1549 Post(s)
Liked 941 Times
in
504 Posts
Flipping some one off IS a confrontation.
I am not perfect. I don't live in a perfect world. But.... at least I don't go out starting trouble by flipping people obscene gestures (and calling it free speech) and I am NOT afraid of traffic. I get along VERY WELL in this rough-around-the-edges world.
But don't worry. If... after you "express yourself with free speech" and some one wants "break the law".... just throw your smile in front of his/her fist.... your teeth will stop the punch. Then reach into your saddle bag and get out your law books and wave those around.
I am not perfect. I don't live in a perfect world. But.... at least I don't go out starting trouble by flipping people obscene gestures (and calling it free speech) and I am NOT afraid of traffic. I get along VERY WELL in this rough-around-the-edges world.
But don't worry. If... after you "express yourself with free speech" and some one wants "break the law".... just throw your smile in front of his/her fist.... your teeth will stop the punch. Then reach into your saddle bag and get out your law books and wave those around.
05-15-15, 01:55 PM
#156
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
The finger is a provocation that invites a fight.
A fight is a type of confrontation.
Yelling and screaming is also a confrontation.
Spitting is a type of confrontation.
Kicking the door of a Prius that cut you off is a confrontation.
It is all a matter of degree.
Nutjobs do not require much to set them off.
A fight is a type of confrontation.
Yelling and screaming is also a confrontation.
Spitting is a type of confrontation.
Kicking the door of a Prius that cut you off is a confrontation.
It is all a matter of degree.
Nutjobs do not require much to set them off.
05-15-15, 01:57 PM
#157
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,273
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4257 Post(s)
Liked 1,358 Times
in
942 Posts
Your first premise is silly. The rest of your argument fails as a consequence.
The fraction of flips that lead to actual fights is very, very small.
There's no physical/natural law that compels people to take it as an invitation to do anything.
It's normal behavior to mostly ignore it.
The fraction of flips that lead to actual fights is very, very small.
There's no physical/natural law that compels people to take it as an invitation to do anything.
It's normal behavior to mostly ignore it.
Last edited by njkayaker; 05-15-15 at 02:01 PM.
05-15-15, 02:00 PM
#158
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: D'uh... I am a Cutter
Posts: 6,139
Bikes: '17 Access Old Turnpike Gravel bike, '14 Trek 1.1, '13 Cannondale CAAD 10, '98 CAD 2, R300
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1571 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times
in
9 Posts
Yeah..... thing is.... fighting is a verb.... and confrontation is a noun.
noun: confrontation; plural noun: confrontations
noun: confrontation; plural noun: confrontations
- a hostile or argumentative meeting or situation between opposing parties.
This discussion has degraded into school-yard silliness. We have people who are obviously afraid of traffic (and people) and likely don't even cycle. Practicing pretend bicycle law in all states connected to the Internet. Fact is.... in the real world east of the east coast.... obscene gestures are taken seriously. And getting punched in the face... isn't so much. In MOST of the world.... you can still get a bloody nose by acting a fool and swearing at people.
05-15-15, 02:03 PM
#159
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,273
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4257 Post(s)
Liked 1,358 Times
in
942 Posts
The act of fighting, then.
So, here you are talking about fuming like a nutcase as a response to being "tested"?
05-15-15, 02:07 PM
#162
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,273
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4257 Post(s)
Liked 1,358 Times
in
942 Posts
The facts are before you and you choose to ignore them.
You aren't even a competent pedant.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...finition%20act
noun
- 1.
a thing done; a deed.
"a criminal act"
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]deed, action, feat, exploit, move, gesture, performance, undertaking,stunt, operation; More
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
05-15-15, 02:07 PM
#163
Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Not sure the Courts agree with you on this one.
It would help if your posts were at least pertinent to the discussion. The trouble wasn't started by an obscene gesture. But hey, keep living in you "happy place" if it helps prevent you from punching someone who dares to flip you the bird.
Take it up with the SCOTUS, it was their decision, not ours.
Ummmmmmm...ok...sure...whatever…I believe you already, please don’t hit me.
Wow...you need to relax a little but there, tough guy. You seem to live by the mantra of “safety and harmony” through threats, intimidation, and violence. Maybe go out for a bike ride, eh.
So if I understand you correctly, the victim of violence should just keep their mouths shut and not call the police because…well…because they probably deserved it? You’re such a peach.
Take it up with the SCOTUS, it was their decision, not ours.
So if I understand you correctly, the victim of violence should just keep their mouths shut and not call the police because…well…because they probably deserved it? You’re such a peach.
05-15-15, 02:08 PM
#164
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
That clip makes cyclists look like idiots to non-cyclists.
Provocation does not mean the cyclists gesture is equally wrong.
I don't know what planet you are from (I suspect California, New Jersey, or some other Socialistic Utopia) but you give someone the finger in Red Blooded Merica, you should not be surprised that they are at least in your face.
05-15-15, 02:11 PM
#165
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
No
Giving someone the finger and you should expect the potential for a fight. I understand that you are in NJ where self defense is not allowed and possession of a slingshot or a pen knife in public carries 5 years in jail ; so, I can understand your skew.
Giving someone the finger and you should expect the potential for a fight. I understand that you are in NJ where self defense is not allowed and possession of a slingshot or a pen knife in public carries 5 years in jail ; so, I can understand your skew.
Your first premise is silly. The rest of your argument fails as a consequence.
The fraction of flips that lead to actual fights is very, very small.
There's no physical/natural law that compels people to take it as an invitation to do anything.
It's normal behavior to mostly ignore it.
The fraction of flips that lead to actual fights is very, very small.
There's no physical/natural law that compels people to take it as an invitation to do anything.
It's normal behavior to mostly ignore it.
05-15-15, 02:12 PM
#166
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,273
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4257 Post(s)
Liked 1,358 Times
in
942 Posts
05-15-15, 02:13 PM
#167
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,273
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4257 Post(s)
Liked 1,358 Times
in
942 Posts
Dave Cutter did. And the OP appears to think the silly hand gesture is worse (remember, the credits the driver with restraint!).
Silly.
"Self defense"? Huh?
The incident happened in Georgia (not NJ) and, as far as anybody knows, only the driver was arrested.
"Self defense"? Huh?
The incident happened in Georgia (not NJ) and, as far as anybody knows, only the driver was arrested.
Last edited by njkayaker; 05-15-15 at 02:17 PM.
05-15-15, 02:15 PM
#169
Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
05-15-15, 02:18 PM
#170
Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Man...I'm gonna be away from my computer for most of the weekend (a couple bike rides planned (hope I don't run into my new buddy Dave) and some family time). I'm bummed I'm gonna miss all this...I'm having a blast. 
05-15-15, 02:18 PM
#171
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Even Monkeys understand the rules about flipping the bird. These are natural laws. Scotus? Seriously. Who cares what they say.
https://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.2199196
https://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.2199196
05-15-15, 02:23 PM
#172
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,273
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4257 Post(s)
Liked 1,358 Times
in
942 Posts
Even Monkeys understand the rules about flipping the bird. These are natural laws. Scotus? Seriously. Who cares what they say.
https://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.2199196
https://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.2199196
At this point, qualifying for a driver's license should include having the bird flipped at the candidate and denying it if they react like a monkey. Then, again, if a silly hand gesture so easly provokes them to violence, I can't imagine what havok would result not just giving in to whatever the psychopaths want.
Maybe, the solution is to give them licenses but restrict them to psychopath-only roadways and let them fight it out among themselves.
Last edited by njkayaker; 05-15-15 at 02:31 PM.
05-15-15, 02:28 PM
#173
Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
05-15-15, 02:43 PM
#175
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
We are talking about avoidance of harm and enjoying your day. Not legal mumbo jumbo.
I suspect you are quite young.
I would have turned around immediately and went the other way. On the other hand, I would have defended myself if knocked off the bike. I would not have drawn my firearm. I avoid confrontation completely. A 2 ton vehicle has the upper hand completely. I have had people in vehicles try to kill me more than once....run me off the road, circle back and run me off again. I have had bottles thrown at me in the middle of the night. Been spit on. Just turn around and go the other way.
There are about 700 bicyclists killed by cars every year in the USA. Hit and runs on cyclists are on the rise. This video and news just makes matters worse with the average Joe Public although I think the video surveillance might be a deterrent to the non-psycopathic drivers.
https://graphics.latimes.com/la-bike-hit-and-runs/