Right Turn on Red
#1
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Right Turn on Red
I seem to encounter this situation on a frequent-enough basis that I'd like to get the group's opinion on how to handle it. Here's the sitcheeation: An intersection with clear lines of sight in the direction of oncoming traffic, I've got a red light and am looking to make a right turn. A right turn on red is legal at this intersection. The road I'm turning onto has either a 1. WOL, 2. wide shoulder, or 3. bike lane. FWIW, it's usually a wide shoulder. In each case, how would you make the right turn?
I started typing out options but then this turns into a poll and I'd rather it just be a discussion. In this situation, provided there are no intersections/driveways shortly after the intersection I'm pulling out of, I will make the right turn when there is a wide shoulder or safe bike lane even with a steady stream of oncoming traffic. With a WOL, I will wait for a gap in traffic before I pull out.
Sorry for the lack of pictures. On of these days when I'm not in a rush to get to work or the bank, I'll have to snap some. They might make the discussion a little easier, or not.
I started typing out options but then this turns into a poll and I'd rather it just be a discussion. In this situation, provided there are no intersections/driveways shortly after the intersection I'm pulling out of, I will make the right turn when there is a wide shoulder or safe bike lane even with a steady stream of oncoming traffic. With a WOL, I will wait for a gap in traffic before I pull out.
Sorry for the lack of pictures. On of these days when I'm not in a rush to get to work or the bank, I'll have to snap some. They might make the discussion a little easier, or not.
#2
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I do a similar turn most mornings on my commute. I turn into the shoulder, then get up to speed and merge into traffic. I don't wait for a gap in traffic to turn.
#3
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DC, what's the speed limit on the streets you are turning onto? The two places I encounter this have a 40 or 45mph speed limit. I'm generally not in the traffic lane much on either road due to constant traffic so merging with traffic isn't really on my mind.
#4
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Generally, the law about right turns on red lights goes something like this: you may make a right-hand turn on a red light when it is clear and reasonably safe to do so. I would think that a bicycle, which is treated as a vehicle with all rights and responsibilities as cars, would have to follow the same law.
Now, if there's a bike lane you are turning in to, and there are no cyclists or cars in the bike lane, I would think that's "clear and reasonably safe". If there is no bike lane, and you are dealing with a WOL, I think that legally you'd be not following the law if you right-turn while traffic is going past.
*shrug* Just my $.02, and remember IANAL.
Now, if there's a bike lane you are turning in to, and there are no cyclists or cars in the bike lane, I would think that's "clear and reasonably safe". If there is no bike lane, and you are dealing with a WOL, I think that legally you'd be not following the law if you right-turn while traffic is going past.
*shrug* Just my $.02, and remember IANAL.
#5
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I'd agree with iamtam. If the bike lane/shoulder is clear, the right turn is legal. Otherwise, you need a traffic gap in the sharable WOL.
One problem could arise if you use both a car and a bike on that route. Your bike habit of turning when the bike lane is clear could be a problem. Then again, I'm a retrogrouch who never really accepted this newfangled "right turn on red" nonsense.
Paul
One problem could arise if you use both a car and a bike on that route. Your bike habit of turning when the bike lane is clear could be a problem. Then again, I'm a retrogrouch who never really accepted this newfangled "right turn on red" nonsense.
Paul
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Originally Posted by joejack951
I seem to encounter this situation on a frequent-enough basis that I'd like to get the group's opinion on how to handle it. Here's the sitcheeation: An intersection with clear lines of sight in the direction of oncoming traffic, I've got a red light and am looking to make a right turn. A right turn on red is legal at this intersection. The road I'm turning onto has either a 1. WOL, 2. wide shoulder, or 3. bike lane. FWIW, it's usually a wide shoulder. In each case, how would you make the right turn?.
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Originally Posted by joejack951
In this situation, provided there are no intersections/driveways shortly after the intersection I'm pulling out of, I will make the right turn when there is a wide shoulder or safe bike lane even with a steady stream of oncoming traffic. With a WOL, I will wait for a gap in traffic before I pull out.
#8
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Interesting to hear different sides on the WOL as that's the one instance where I question what I'm doing. Since I'm legally allowed to share the lane, if I can pull out without bothering the cars in that lane, then I'm still legal (in my opinion). I think the main reason I don't do that is drivers may think I'm pulling out in front of them and do something stupid (swerve, slam on their brakes, etc.). With the bike lane/shoulder, I feel as though they expect me to be there anyway so they don't question what I'm doing.
#9
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Originally Posted by PaulH
One problem could arise if you use both a car and a bike on that route. Your bike habit of turning when the bike lane is clear could be a problem.
Paul
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I also do a right-turn, sometimes on red, onto a shoulder where the traffic on the road is 40 - 45 MPH.
I wait for a gap, so I don't freak the on-coming motorist out due to the small reaction time. It's bad to have lateral motion in front of me (as a motorist) with little or no time to assess and react.
If it were 30 MPH, I wouldn't bother.
I wait for a gap, so I don't freak the on-coming motorist out due to the small reaction time. It's bad to have lateral motion in front of me (as a motorist) with little or no time to assess and react.
If it were 30 MPH, I wouldn't bother.
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What really frustrates me is motorists who think they can make a right-turn before I can, even though i signal my attention beforehand. They pass me and then stop to make a proper right-turn, while I could have already done so while not slowing anyone down.
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Originally Posted by joejack951
...I will make the right turn when there is a wide shoulder or safe bike lane even with a steady stream of oncoming traffic. With a WOL, I will wait for a gap in traffic before I pull out.
I say that because I have a right-on-red scenario with a bike lane on my right, and even some space to the right of the bike lane. But sometimes, believe it or not, motorists cross over the intersection into the bike lane. In that case, it makes it risky.
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Originally Posted by gboy
What really frustrates me is motorists who think they can make a right-turn before I can, even though i signal my attention beforehand. They pass me and then stop to make a proper right-turn, while I could have already done so while not slowing anyone down.
Al
#14
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
I always make right turns from the middle of the lane so cars never squeeze me. I also don't always turn into the bike lane or shoulder. Makes for much more comfortable right turns, not worring about cars behind squeezing you.
Al
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I wait for a gap to avoid spooking the drivers. From their point of view, they don't know that you're going to stay to the right as you approach their lane. I don't want to cause them to veer towards the oncoming lane.
#16
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
I wait for a gap to avoid spooking the drivers. From their point of view, they don't know that you're going to stay to the right as you approach their lane. I don't want to cause them to veer towards the oncoming lane.
So when I am on my bike, in order to avoid spooking the oncoming motorists, I make the turn slowly and deliberately and make eye contact with the oncoming driver.
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#17
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If it's a long red light, you could always step off the bike, walk a few feet around the corner on the sidewalk, place your bike back on the right edge of the street, mount up, and start riding. The cars coming by can already see you, and know you'll be on the right side of the lane. They will act the same as if you were going through the intersection with them in a wide lane.
I've done this at long lights where there's no right turn on red.
I've done this at long lights where there's no right turn on red.
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I always wait for a gap, even if just a small one. A lot of motorists fear cyclists. Even if there's no way I'd be making the turn into their path, many are afraid I might. I think it's harder for them to read whether we're going straight or turning sometimes.
So I try to time it so that they won't be afraid. I would do the same whether there's a bike lane, WOL or whatever (in my town the bike lanes are gone by the time you reach the intersection.)
So I try to time it so that they won't be afraid. I would do the same whether there's a bike lane, WOL or whatever (in my town the bike lanes are gone by the time you reach the intersection.)
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Originally Posted by sbhikes
(in my town the bike lanes are gone by the time you reach the intersection.)
I just go with the flow of traffic. I won't turn into a NOL or WOL if cars are coming in the same lane. If there is a BL I don't unless there is somewhat of a gap, most often I don't turn into the BL - debris, rough around the corner, but mainly if a car is coming you never know if it is going to right turn into the driveway that is right after the intersection you are turning from. Where I ride every intersection has driveways (for gas station, for shopping center) on every corner.
Another good reason not to turn into BL at night is there can be a shadow cyclist in the BL, I turned right in front of one once and they had to slow hard. I did not see them at all even with me looking while fully stopped, they had a very small dim front light aimed at ground and car lights overwhelming my vision. I told them they needed a new light and (this was in Nov.) they said they knew and they were getting one for Christmas.
Al
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As I was cycling home yesterday a motorcyclist made a right turn into the BL ahead of me, got up to speed and merged into traffic. A lot of times there is no gap so I understand why they did this.
Al
Al
#21
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FWIW, I usually wait for something of a gap, even if it is bike lane to bike lane. Right turns on red are arguably more dangerous than left turns, since the cyclist is not crossing traffic, but merging into it, so the danger of a collision stays with the cyclist longer.
Now, if it were a steady stream of traffic and wide shoulders/WOL's/BL's, I would break with my principle and make the turn regardless of traffic concerns.
I encounter a similar dilemma at 'T' type intersections, where I have a red on the top of the 'T', with a clear bike lane ahead. I see absolutely no issue with running the red because there will be no cars crossing my path. However, I am unclear on the legality of this (actually, I kind of think it is illegal), but at the same time, it is one of those laws which does not make sense. So every time I am in this situation I am very tempted to run the red.
Now, if it were a steady stream of traffic and wide shoulders/WOL's/BL's, I would break with my principle and make the turn regardless of traffic concerns.
I encounter a similar dilemma at 'T' type intersections, where I have a red on the top of the 'T', with a clear bike lane ahead. I see absolutely no issue with running the red because there will be no cars crossing my path. However, I am unclear on the legality of this (actually, I kind of think it is illegal), but at the same time, it is one of those laws which does not make sense. So every time I am in this situation I am very tempted to run the red.
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
I encounter a similar dilemma at 'T' type intersections, where I have a red on the top of the 'T', with a clear bike lane ahead. I see absolutely no issue with running the red because there will be no cars crossing my path. However, I am unclear on the legality of this (actually, I kind of think it is illegal), but at the same time, it is one of those laws which does not make sense. So every time I am in this situation I am very tempted to run the red.
Al
#23
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
I encounter a similar dilemma at 'T' type intersections, where I have a red on the top of the 'T', with a clear bike lane ahead. I see absolutely no issue with running the red because there will be no cars crossing my path. However, I am unclear on the legality of this (actually, I kind of think it is illegal), but at the same time, it is one of those laws which does not make sense. So every time I am in this situation I am very tempted to run the red.
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Originally Posted by iamtim
Generally, the law about right turns on red lights goes something like this: you may make a right-hand turn on a red light when it is clear and reasonably safe to do so. I would think that a bicycle, which is treated as a vehicle with all rights and responsibilities as cars, would have to follow the same law.
Now, if there's a bike lane you are turning in to, and there are no cyclists or cars in the bike lane, I would think that's "clear and reasonably safe". If there is no bike lane, and you are dealing with a WOL, I think that legally you'd be not following the law if you right-turn while traffic is going past.
*shrug* Just my $.02, and remember IANAL.
Now, if there's a bike lane you are turning in to, and there are no cyclists or cars in the bike lane, I would think that's "clear and reasonably safe". If there is no bike lane, and you are dealing with a WOL, I think that legally you'd be not following the law if you right-turn while traffic is going past.
*shrug* Just my $.02, and remember IANAL.
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
I encounter a similar dilemma at 'T' type intersections, where I have a red on the top of the 'T', with a clear bike lane ahead. I see absolutely no issue with running the red because there will be no cars crossing my path. However, I am unclear on the legality of this (actually, I kind of think it is illegal), but at the same time, it is one of those laws which does not make sense. So every time I am in this situation I am very tempted to run the red.
Don't forget there could be other cyclists making the left turn from the cross street into the bike lane. There's an intersection like this in my area, but I'm usually approaching from the bottom of the "T" and making a left turn. I have almost been, ummm, "T-boned", by cyclists who have run the red in the situation you describe.
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