walrus1

I try my best to stay out of the helmet debate. However I will say if you choose to wear a helmet it works best when place on top of your head with the buckles fastened together not secured to your backpack, messenger bag in your basket or held in your hands. Come on you're already carrying it so just put it on properly.

elcruxio

I believe upright bikes are being ridden because they are more fun, manouvre better, don't look dorky and the pain issue is a minority thing.

I do like the speed aspect however and I would like to build myself a fully enclosed aero velomobile with an electric assist for those windy/rainy commutes.

But let's face it. When riding a bent is cool in a straight line but they don't come close to the fun you can have on an upright bike when it comes to cornering. A trike is completely useless and even with the two wheeler you lose the ability to shift your balance around.

Not to mention you can't ride a bent offroad. Or at least not the trails I consider to be offroad.

rydabent

There for a couple of days there were no posts on this thread. I was hoping against hope that the anti helmet types had give up on their rants against helmets.

mconlonx

Helmets are evil devices concocted by Satan and fobbed off to humans in order to sow discord among small groups who bicker about use/non-use of these infernal devices. Be good: don't wear a helmet. They are evil, I tell you.

howsteepisit

Probably all been killed in accidents wherein wearing a helmet would have saved their lives.

SeKoivisto

Yes, I wear a helmet always when riding a bike. It is like shoes when I'm walking on sideways; thing which is just needed, but is not mandatory.

TransitBiker

I personally think it's foolish not to protect yourself from cranial injury, concussion, and death. I've retired two helmets in a crash, and they BOTH saved me a cracked skull and a visit from Mr. Reaper. It pains me to see these kids (anyone actually) boarding or biking with not even a mouth guard let alone helmet. I'm a pretty skilled rider, but i will not move on a bike without helmet secured. Hot, not really my experience, and I've only had full shell (bowling ball) type. First one was a tony hawk, second was a nutcase, and i have ridden during heat waves with no real plus or minus effects, the main issue with higher temps is being next to cars with the exhaust pipe heat radiating out the sides, that stuff is brutal.

Anyways, yea, I'm not going to ride till i get new helmet, probably another nutcase.

- Andy

rydabent

What is funny is the fact that the few here that rant against helmets, drive cars that have thousands of dollars of "safety equiptment" that they are forced to buy by the government. Air bags, seatbelt shoulder harness, high mounted brake lights, and battering ram bumpers. Maybe they could rail against these nanny items, and save money.

Helmets are a cheap safety device I chose to use. On my trike I wear shoes with clips that attach to the pedals to preclude leg suck. Why not use appropriate safety items for the sport you chose to participate in?

mconlonx

Do you wear a helmet while driving your car...? Do you go beyond mandated safety devices while driving?

rydabent

mcon

No I do not wear a helmet in my car. I DO wear my seatbelt and shoulder harness tho. That along with the multitude of air bags are the safety equiptment in a car, as is a bike helmet for a cyclist.

You and I both agree there should not be MHLs. Yet the Fed government dictates mandatory seat belts and airbags. All of which raises the price of a car probably at least $1000.

elcruxio

A motoracing helmet in a car would help though. You cannot dispute that.

rydabent

Itsnt it amazing that the people that dont want to use a helmet on a bike argue that I should wear a motor cycle helmet in a car that already equipt with thousands of dollars of safety devices.

elcruxio

I understand your concern on the matter but would you please address the fact that a helmet is going to be safer in a crash when driving a car than not having one regardless of the safety systems. All the safety systems in a car protect various parts of the body from serious injury. However a helmet would protect the head even more and as we all know the head is our most important body part. So why not spend a little more and get some extra protection for the head.

mconlonx

The Feds don't mandate wearing a helmet while cycling, either. But you do. So why not wear one in a car? Required safety devices notwithstanding, auto accidents are the leading cause of head injury and TBI in the USA. By a rather large margin. Cycling is barely represented when looking at head injury statistics.

If you were going to base helmet usage on actual figures rather than emotion and acculturation, you'd wear one in a car, not on a bike.

mr_bill

Sophomores.



You *EVER* wear a seatbelt? You *EVER* touch a handrail on a stairway?

That's what I thought.

-mr. bill

rekmeyata

You mean freshman...sophomore is being a bit generous...but then again so is freshman.

Anywho, safety equipment installed in new cars cost about $5,200, but that is not what it cost to replace those items in the event of a crash, that could be more in the neighborhood of $1,500 per airbag and around $600 to reset the airbag light...just to reset the computer? A hidden price is the powder (mostly baking soda but can be difficult to remove off of especially leather) that is blown into the air and gets on the upholstery and carpets that needs to be cleaned afterwards which could cost around $250. This cost to replace could be crazy high with some new cars having not just steering wheel and passenger dash bags, but now they have knee bags, center bag, side curtain bags on all seats (lets assume 4), seat cushion bag for each front seat, and seat belt airbag; that's a possible total of 12 bags at $1500 per bag that comes to $18,000 plus $600 to reset and $250 to clean for a grand total of darn near $19,000, thus a 6 year old car with just $5,000 in body damage stands a very good chance of being totaled due to the bag cost alone!

Yet a far cheaper solution is available that would work just as well but of course someone in some corporation somewhere won't get their money and thus won't rub the back of some politicians that pushed the airbag crap on the car industry. A 4 point harness system similar to what is used in race cars without the in between the legs strap though that could also be used since they do that with baby seats, but made simple for us stupid everyday drivers to figure out how to use could be incorporated in every car. And add to the car a built in (meaning hidden from view) overhead roll bar would be where the belt roller would attach to, seat belt comes across meeting in the center and the overhead belt plugs into the seat belt, the system would use the same auto tensioner they use today so you can move freely about like today's cars. Actually there is a variation of what I'm talking about on the market that one could put in a car without any mods called the Schroth Rallye 4 (meaning 4 point) and it's DOT approved. Cost of the roll bar about $500 max times two for front and rear passenger compartments, cost of belts about $250 max for each passenger, so a typical 4 passenger vehicle would cost just $2,000 and that is OUR cost, the car manufacture can do it for less money. This would lower the price of new cars and prevent the rapid totaling of a car due to air bag cost.

Wearing a helmet while driving a street car is impractical due to limiting ones peripheral vision which is needed more on the street than on the track, and would not work well with passenger style seats.

rydabent

rekmeyata +1

Farmer Dave

I wear a helmet when I mountain bike. I wear a helmet at night where my light is mounted. I don't wear a helmet when I commute to work. Am I going to hell?

rydabent

farmer

Being from Oregon, its a possibilty.

JoeyBike

I have not peeked in here for years. S.O.S. I am not even sure how this issue is so debatable. I think a few things have been resolved here tho:

Safety helmets are readily available for almost any sport. Wear one if you want to. (debatable?)

A crash helmet MIGHT help an individual avoid unnecessary head trauma under CERTAIN conditions. (debatable?)

If your non-helmet head gets cracked open the news media will ALWAYS mention the lack of a helmet. If you were wearing a helmet the odds are about 50/50 that it will be mentioned. (debatable?)

Modern helmets are lighter, more comfortable, and better ventilated than ever before. Certainly as light and much cooler than a baseball hat (if you spend way more $$$ than a baseball hat). (debatable?)

Depending on the crowd you hang with, wearing a helmet can make you look dorky OR lack of a helmet can make you look like an amateur. (debatable?)

Insurance companies who require helmet use at sanctioned events have spearheaded the whole helmet industry by MAKING people wear them. (debatable?)

Some cyclists like to wear costumes when they ride. A helmet can be a fine matching accessory for a cycling costume - purchased with absolutely no eye toward real safety. (debatable?)

The vast majority of cyclists on Earth do not wear helmets when they cycle and some manage to live through the experience. (debatable?)

If you are an adult and NOT participating in a sanctioned event that requires helmet use then you are FREE to wear one or not. (debatable?)

Almost no one (outside of a few friends and relatives) even CARES is you smash your grape on the concrete and die. (debatable?)

Just for the record, I have never hit my head due to a bicycle crash and I just made 56 years. I started wearing a helmet in 1989 due to a sanctioned event. I liked it and I kept on wearing it. I am going to wear some kind of hat anyway to shield me from sun. My helmet is cooler than most hats, does not blow off my head, gives my rear-view mirror a place to clip, and might...just MIGHT...keep me from getting stitches in my grape or worse. OH...and I don't give a rat's belly-button lint-ball what anyone else thinks of me one way or another. Nor do I feel the need to tell other adults what to wear.

OK...let's keep up the debate! We are very near 200,000 views here!

Joe Minton

SEALs (Sea Air Land) do not do risky high velocity training exercises bare-headed (do a search). I "know" this to be a fact.

It is very difficult to experience more than 80g inside a car during a majority of impacts. A modern (post '82' or so) automobile "is" a helmet.

Helmets do what they are designed to do: reduce peak "g" loadings during an impact. Their 'track record' is unasalable.

So --- you may not want to wear one, that is your right, which I support. But -- don't expect me to support you, or your family, when you pound your brains into paste against a rock, curb or other overly hard objects. You made your decision: live or die by it. BUT!!! BUt!! But! --- Dont lie and tell Noobies that helmets dont work! DONT!! To do so in a demonstrably Evil act.

I once came upon a motorcycle crash where the rider was bleeding out of his nose and ears and was, basically, DRT (Dead Right There -- ask a cop). He went head-on into a car (car's fault); he struck the upper windshield support. The speed differential was low (+- 15 mph). Low enough that a DOT helmet would have almost certainly made the difference (life & death).

I wear a helmet whenever I ride -- it is my choice. Until a few months ago, I never fell to earth and struck my head. This recent 'adventure' left a small mark on my helmet and might have scratched my scalp sans helmet, but, the foam was not compressed, indicating a moderate impact. My helmet was in position but not needed. Instead, My collar bone was broken along with three ribs.

I have witnessed damaging and even deadly collisions; I have investigated and given testimony about many, many more. I have written articles about the effectiveness of helmets (Motorcyclist Oct '81, Bicycle Rider July '86 (dates may be wrong). --- The science is clear: they do what they claim to do.

So -- I if you wish to debate whether or not they work, do not expect science or experience to support you because it wont! Remand your complaints to your personal (or group's) agenda. You'll gain no traction with rational adults.

Joe

BTW: I encourage any insulting or unsupported attacks --- my "ignore" list is somewhat short and I would enjoy lengthening it a bit more -- ;o)

rydabent

joe m +1

Well stated!

I-Like-To-Bike

Yes it is debatable. Do insurance companies really require participants wear helmets in non competitive bicycling events, such as charity rides and other non racing activities, or is that just a convenient excuse used by the organizers of these events to mandate their own preferences?

Also who is being insured, the participants or the organizers/sponsors of the event?

JoeyBike

I have zero people on my ignore list and been here since 2007. I don't want to limit the entertainment value of this place.

JoeyBike

It's the race organizer's insurance company that will not insure unless appropriate safety equipment is worn. No matter if it's the local fund raiser, the Olympic Games, or the Tour de France. Shoot, even the NFL has many lawsuits against them for head injuries caused INSIDE of a helmet!

So participants in insured events sign wavers regarding injury (for starters) and insurance companies don't want to be supporting "vegetables" until their coverage runs out (which could be MILLIONS of dollars) when it is cheap and easy to (possibly) minimize head injuries by forcing participants to wear helmets. Almost any injury outside of the brain can be fixed "good as new" except spinal injuries which can not be protected with equipment. Brain injuries, due to the location of the head on a body, are more common than spinal injuries all things being equal. In many falls and crashes the head is the far end of the whip - as in "crack the whip". A person's back can suffer a relatively modest force in the same crash that a head can be whipped to the tarmac and causing a concussion or worse.

To answer your question, it is the insurance companies forcing the issue. Event organizers have no chance of obtaining liability insurance without the helmet mandate. I know for certain (history proves this) that many (if not most) professional cyclists would not wear helmets (unless it was clearly beneficial to WINNING i.e., time trials) and race officials and organizers (many ex-pro cyclists) don't care and would never force that issue. I can't speak for other types of events. So many people are brainwashed on this helmet issue in the USA it would be hard to tell. But even in Europe insurance companies have trumped what anyone in the races wants.