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-   -   A Thread For New, Young And/Or Caught Up in The Moment of havig Standup 4 U Bicyclist (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/917927-thread-new-young-caught-up-moment-havig-standup-4-u-bicyclist.html)

GreatWhiteShark 10-14-13 04:57 PM

A Thread For New, Young And/Or Caught Up in The Moment of havig Standup 4 U Bicyclist
 
I post the following in hopes it will help people remember to act better, than I, when their safety is at risk.

Just last Thursday, with the conditions I bicycle under you have to stand up for yourself and argue and it can get very unfriendly, I had a father, children and woman (I assume was his wife and mother of the children) honked at me and drove by me within just a foot or so, I yelled at them about learn to drive and I think 3-ft. rule. Then the same car and ?Family? came from behind me again, but this time the woman reached out and pushed on me, yelling at me to move over (even for being just 1-ft. from the edge of roads; I am legally allowed to ride around damaged road parts <since doing so avoided more flat tires and damage to my bicycle> and do so on this road, before this the safest route I take). I did not fall and it did not really affect me at all, luckily. Again I yelled at them and she yelled back and gave them the bird. Keep in mind I am trying to get home, to eat dinner and before it starts to get dark. I think they only drove by a total of three or two-times, before the father pulled his automobile into the grass, on the side of the road, about 100-miles ahead of me, but only the second last time was when she reached out and pushed me and gave them the bird in two-passes, I believe. Avoiding the damage in the road I start riding in the middle of the lane, seeing the father up ahead and knowing the other lane is busy, I decided to ride past him, I had no picture of all this and would have to go through my cellphone to call police; was not even thinking of all this, has been a decade since having any trouble on this road. Wall, when I get next to the father he pushes me into the left lane. When I stop in the middle of the left lane, he is over me and when I get to standing position, he is repeatedly telling me, you were seriously giving my children the bird and do seriously want to get in a fight with me. I was not giving his kids the bird, even though I could see them in the back seat of their car; I could have said that to him. Like stopping and taking pictures and then calling the police and feeling the pain of badly skinned up knee and elbow and badly jammed wrists, luckily, before riding next to him, I just never thought of it. Even though I am not a fighter, peaceful person, another lucky thing is I did not get in a fight with him with my wrists. Continuing with the not thinking thing, the only thing I told the father, do you know how many people honk behind me. Wow, that was what I said. With the woman yelling at him not to do anything, the whole time traffic is stopped and not a single driver or passenger gets out to help. The father finally said get your bicycle out of traffic. As some automobiles just drive by like nothing happened; ONLY ONE PERSON (woman) did stop, in the middle of the right lane and asked me if I was alright, told her nothing is broken and complained (sp?) about lack of police caring and heard other automobiles behind her honking, so I apologized for holding her up and as she started to drive by thanks her for stopping and she said no problem and you are welcome. Of course, at this time the ?family? was long gone and so I got back on my bicycle and rode home, luckily only feeling a little bite of pain then.

I am thinking of getting- pads for my knees and elbows, glasses (person had stole the last one I had), a super small video camera for my helmet and put both police departments on speed dial in my cellphone; but really I could have been a lot smarter and pulled over to the right lane's grass, many yards away, taken the pictures (of the father and license plate), ride across the lanes, call the police and wait on the grass, of the left lane. Well, live and learn

unterhausen 10-14-13 07:38 PM

if someone touches me, 911 gets a call. I would have stopped then. You ran into some real crazies, be careful. Even now, I would contact the police on a non-emergency line and make a complaint, that's just nuts

And I know I'm not just speaking for myself when I say that red makes your post pretty much unreadable

rebel1916 10-14-13 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unterhausen (Post 16161257)

And I know I'm not just speaking for myself when I say that red makes your post pretty much unreadable

It's not just the red...

FBinNY 10-14-13 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unterhausen (Post 16161257)
if someone touches me, 911 gets a call. I would have stopped then. You ran into some real crazies, be careful. Even now, I would contact the police on a non-emergency line and make a complaint, that's just nuts

And I know I'm not just speaking for myself when I say that red makes your post pretty much unreadable

They don't even have to touch me, just make a credible threat of imminent danger. Flipping me the bird, or yelling at me is below the line here, but a swerve, stopping up ahead to head me off, or any overt action gets a visit to the local police headquarters.

Don in Austin 10-14-13 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unterhausen (Post 16161257)
if someone touches me, 911 gets a call. I would have stopped then. You ran into some real crazies, be careful. Even now, I would contact the police on a non-emergency line and make a complaint, that's just nuts

And I know I'm not just speaking for myself when I say that red makes your post pretty much unreadable

I gave up on trying to read it. Way too long without a paragraph break. Way too long, period.

Don in Austin

GP 10-14-13 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16161417)
They don't even have to touch me, just make a credible threat of imminent danger. Flipping me the bird, or yelling at me is below the line here, but a swerve, stopping up ahead to head me off, or any overt action gets a visit to the local police headquarters.

Really? I'd be filing a couple complaints a week just on my commute.

spinbackle 10-15-13 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel1916 (Post 16161369)
It's not just the red...

I didn't make it past the first sentence.....

turbo1889 10-15-13 03:05 AM

I read it all, but it was hard to follow and choppy, almost like it was originally in another language and a compute program did an automatic translate (I read a lot of foreign web-sites using google translate).

Long story short, if I understand him correctly the OP had three different confrontations with the same aggressive male driver and female passenger.

First time it was just a deliberate close pass and a verbal exchange.

Then the driver circled back around for a second attack on the OP and the female passenger physically reached out of her window while alongside and tried to shove the cyclist over or off the edge of the road.

And then finally in the third confrontation the cyclist caught up with the attacker and tried to pass the car which was stopped in backed up traffic and the male driver physically got out and pushed the cyclist to the ground and stood over him and challenged him to a fight right there in the road. During this time more cars were backed up behind and honking and no one tried to help the cyclist.




This does not sound in any way implausible to me, I would consider this par for the course and just another case of violence and aggression by a dangerous and vicious felon motorist and his accomplice passenger aided by a bunch of other motorists who although they didn't have to guts to actually do it themselves or join in were certainly willing to stand by and do nothing and probably silently cheering the perps on.

I have found that I personally by how I ride and how I respond to vicious motorists like this can reduce how often stuff like this happens to me personally, but I cannot totally prevent or eliminate it, I've had as bad and worse as this perpetrated against me personally in multiple incidents.

It's just par for the course and it happens every once in a while, acknowledge that fact and make peace with it and then learn to deal with the situations when they come up. Just how it is.

Chris516 10-15-13 03:18 AM

I won't let a motorist get that close to me.

howsteepisit 10-15-13 09:52 AM

And just how do stop a motorist from getting that close to you Chris? The OP needed to file a police report, these incidents seem to be at least two different assaults. Plus in a warped way of thinking, I consider that teaching their children this was OK behavior is a form of child abuse and I get so sick of seeing bad parenting. I know thtas a bit off the deep end, but to show children its OK to assault a cyclist?

gcottay 10-15-13 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteShark (Post 16160823)
I post the following in hopes it will help people remember to act better, than I, when their safety is at risk . . . but really I could have been a lot smarter and pulled over to the right lane's grass, many yards away, taken the pictures (of the father and license plate), road across the lanes and wait on the grass, of the left lane. Well, live and learn

Thanks for your post. Too many of us learn the hard way that few situations are so bad we cannot make them either better or worse.

spivonious 10-15-13 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo1889 (Post 16161833)
It's just par for the course and it happens every once in a while, acknowledge that fact and make peace with it and then learn to deal with the situations when they come up. Just how it is.

Par for the course? That's ridiculous. These people need to be held accountable for their actions. I have NEVER had anyone try anything close to this. If they did, the police would have been called after the second incident.

genec 10-15-13 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel1916 (Post 16161369)
It's not just the red...

Agreed... paragraph anyone?

turbo1889 10-15-13 01:23 PM

@ spivonious

I never said it was right, I said that was how it is, there is usually a huge difference between what is right and how things actually are.

walrus1 10-15-13 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinbackle (Post 16161786)
I didn't make it past the first sentence.....

I didn't try to. When I saw it was all red I gave up.

GreatWhiteShark 10-15-13 01:57 PM

gcottay,

You are welcome; but I do not want people lose the fact that these are situations are created by The Police and County, City & State Govs. first, and The Father and Woman second and the kids are just caught in the middle and used as a shield by the father and probably the woman. It is very important to make sure people understand that

Sorry, I should also post Thank You.

B. Carfree 10-15-13 02:06 PM

Those who advocate calling the police, just what do you think the cops will do? The cyclist has no significant injuries, no witnesses and likely no real identification of his attackers. Plus, he's a cyclist.

Yes, I'm cynical with respect to police responses to attacks and threats against cyclists, but that cynicism is the product of experience. Two times I contacted the police about attacks. In one instance the cop refused to take a report in spite of several witnesses to the ADW-V. In the other, the cop took a report but the DA let the perp off with a deal to not prosecute him as long as he could go a whole year without engaging in similar conduct. It kind of made me wish I had maimed him instead of letting him go. (He had exited his vehicle (a Pinto) and came at me swinging his tiny fists. He was 5'8" 140 lb and untrained; I was a 6'2" 185 lb blackbelt training for nationals. I really don't know what he could have been thinking.)

If we could get more police to ride bikes, out of uniform, then we might get some of them to take such attacks seriously. It would help if the DA's also rode. Until then, we're just ugly step-children to law enforcement.

GreatWhiteShark 10-15-13 02:06 PM

unterhausen,

Thank you, I thought about that, but without any PICs/witnesses there is no proof. I guess I could just do it when I leave today, just to leave a electronic record signature of my call.

GreatWhiteShark 10-15-13 02:12 PM

B. Carfree,

I could not agree more with you,

I also know Judo self defense (3-college level classes), just cannot flip people, feet surgeries and recently damaged big toe on right foot have left not balanced enough to do so. But as I said I was not really experiencing it all, shock it happened on that route and peace first person.


Quote:

Originally Posted by B. Carfree (Post 16163254)
Those who advocate calling the police, just what do you think the cops will do? The cyclist has no significant injuries, no witnesses and likely no real identification of his attackers. Plus, he's a cyclist.

Yes, I'm cynical with respect to police responses to attacks and threats against cyclists, but that cynicism is the product of experience. Two times I contacted the police about attacks. In one instance the cop refused to take a report in spite of several witnesses to the ADW-V. In the other, the cop took a report but the DA let the perp off with a deal to not prosecute him as long as he could go a whole year without engaging in similar conduct. It kind of made me wish I had maimed him instead of letting him go. (He had exited his vehicle (a Pinto) and came at me swinging his tiny fists. He was 5'8" 140 lb and untrained; I was a 6'2" 185 lb blackbelt training for nationals. I really don't know what he could have been thinking.)

If we could get more police to ride bikes, out of uniform, then we might get some of them to take such attacks seriously. It would help if the DA's also rode. Until then, we're just ugly step-children to law enforcement.


howsteepisit 10-15-13 02:37 PM

So in the bcarfree works a motorist can assault and batter (he was knocked down into a lane of traffic) and police will not care? Not buying it despite your them against us world view.

turbo1889 10-15-13 03:58 PM

Depends on the individual cop(s). Some care but have their hands bound by departmental policy. Some care but are kept busy with "more important" tasks. Others do indeed not care. Some would even cheer on such activity and possibly even participate in it themselves.

I'm not saying its right, I'm saying that is how it actually is.

And, yes, some cop(s) actually do both care and will take action and are not obstructed from doing so, unfortunately that seems to be somewhat of a rarity, or its under-reported.

That also is "how it actually is" as well, just wish there were more of it and less of the other ^@^%@ 2&@^@ WY%62 kind.

unterhausen 10-15-13 05:12 PM

my experience is that cops will care if someone makes physical contact with you from a car. I can't imagine the sort of anarchy where that would be below their level of interest

kjmillig 10-15-13 05:46 PM

Anyone close passes with verbalization, then it's intentional and I make a police report with license plate number as a minimum. Come back around a 2nd or third time and it becomes a more serios crime and I'm stopping right there to call the police to report someone in progress of repeatedly trying to run me over and I'm in fear for my life. Speaking in a panicked voice might help.
A driver stopping ahead of me and exiting their car to confront me just became threat of serious bodily harm that will be met first with appropriate armed response followed by a swift call to 911. They will NOT get within arms reach of me.

B. Carfree 10-15-13 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unterhausen (Post 16163737)
my experience is that cops will care if someone makes physical contact with you from a car. I can't imagine the sort of anarchy where that would be below their level of interest

If it's just "he said, she said", no witnesses, no serious injury, no serious property damage, then what is the cop supposed to do? S/he knows cyclists put up with abuse/threats/death-defying risks/self-sanctioning route selection on a regular basis. If there isn't an ambulance ride and witnesses, it's a waste of time since there's pretty much no way to get a conviction without using relatively expensive and time-consuming evidence collection. Those measures are reserved for more "important" victims. We don't make the grade.

Even when there is a death, it's often difficult to get the police to take any action. A month or so ago, a cyclist was right-hooked to death in San Francisco. The SF Bike Coalition specifically asked if the cops checked the video footage of nearby businesses and the cops said there wasn't any. (Remember, when a cyclist fatally struck a pedestrian SFPD was Johnny-on-the-spot to secure video footage, so they know how to do it.) A week after the death, a cop showed up to taunt the SFBC and friends/co-workers of the victim when they held a memorial at the site of the death. Fortunately, as a direct result of that incident someone noticed a video camera pointed at the death scene and secured the footage just hours before it would have automatically overwritten the critical footage.

Here's the news article:http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/nevius...ce-4757178.php

Yes, there is a bit of us-and-them going on. It's unnecessary, unfortunate and just plain prevents justice from being meted out fairly.

rgwinn 10-15-13 10:46 PM

If I commuted, I would have my firearm with me. End of story.


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