Road Cycling - In Praise of Cheap, Old Steel....

A few months ago I bought an older Sekai 2700 in excellent stock [unmodified] condition from a dealer whose main business is in newer, sleek carbon-fiber-and-titanium ultra-kewl hyper fast dream machines that sell for thousands. The price for the Sekai was 75 bucks. I rode the thing home thinking what a great rain bike/thrasher it would make for a season or two until I pummeled it into the ground through sheer abuse and neglect--even if I only got one season out of it, it'd be worth the price....right?
But as I rode the thing, it gradually dawned on me what a really nice bike this was. I mean, although it was a tad heavy, it rolled as nice as anything i'd raced on; it had perfectly adequate brakes; the frame felt stout yet responsive and compliant--all in all, a very nice ride! I have since taken the Sekai out on many team training rides and have no trouble keeping up in the peleton. I haven't had the courage to race it yet, but I honestly don't know why I shouldn't. This summer I'm planning to ride the west coast from Seattle to San Francisco, and I think I'm going to do it on the 75-dollar rain bike. I recently bought a rack and some bags and fenders for it and when it's all set up and the weather's a little nicer, I'm taking two weeks off to point the thing south and cover some epic miles.
Any Sekai owners out there who might have info on this bike or others like it in the line of Sekais? Any other thoughts on resurrecting older but perfectly serviceable bikes?
thanks

Originally posted by zoroastr
Any Sekai owners out there who might have info on this bike or others like it in the line of Sekais? Any other thoughts on resurrecting older but perfectly serviceable bikes?
thanks

I don't know about Sekai owners, but we've got several members who enjoy resurrecting older bikes.

Welcome to the forums.

Richard

I don't own a Sekai either, but I like your attitude.

Welcome to the forums.

Ahhhhh, old steel, a person after my own heart! My first road bike was a 1990 Fuji Roubaix....a great bike that ignited my love for riding. Then, along came a 1989 Schwinn Paramount...Ultegra groupo, comfort, and it ROCKS!

Now, I am restoring a mid-70's Nishiki, really beautiful steel lugged frame, getting an upgraded modern groupo. Much too small for me, but someone is going to get one awesome bike!

Welcome to a great place on the 'net!

I'm with Nebill on this, just having 'restored' a Nishiki hybrid into a race/cross bike. I use it for winter training and it goes like a dream. The good thing is, I'm riding it from Berlin to Prague in May with a few other team members to raise money for a local blind dog school. They've got thoroughbred aluminium race bikes from Cannondale and Serotta but I have confidence in my old steel beast. :) Mind you, come to think of it, the Serotta is steel as well. :)

Yah, I agree with the above.....
as they say (who are THEY anyhow?)
"Steel is Real"

Just one point I'd mention,
Frame Saver. If the frame has
no rust it should prevent any from
forming, or if lightly rusted (and almost
all do) will stop progress.

Marty

Have you thought about doing the charity ride on a tandem with some of the guide dog owners ? My local cycling club does rides for blind people; its one of the few sports they can do on an equal footing with sighted people. Most opt for the stoker position.

Thanx for the helpful info in the replies. The "Frame Saver" thing sounds interesting...is that like some kind of rust-arresting product specially designed for bikes? i didn't notice any rust on the bike i bought, but the question of the long-term structural integrity of frames is a question i've wondered about for a long time. I just bought a restored Moulton from a guy in England, check it out at:
http://www.pioneernet.net/zoroastr/moulton.jpg
and although the frame looks new, i wasn't there for the sandblasting and repainting, so you never know...
Anyway, thanks again, people.

Framesaver is a wax-in-solvent specially made for bikes.

On my commuter bike I spray WD-40 into every frame orifice, and that seems to keep rust in check. I also keep clear a drainage hole in the bottom bracket.

Steel bikes (like any bikes) may eventually break, there are a few well known weak ponts.
Overheated or sharp-edged braze-ons.
Overheated joins esp chainstay to bottom bracket.
Missaligned rear dropouts.
Sometimes internal rust can eat away inside the chainstay.

Good frames can give decades of service with no problems.

Originally posted by MichaelW

Steel bikes (like any bikes) may eventually break, there are a few well known weak ponts.
Overheated or sharp-edged braze-ons.
Overheated joins esp chainstay to bottom bracket.
Missaligned rear dropouts.
Sometimes internal rust can eat away inside the chainstay.

Good frames can give decades of service with no problems.

Fortunately, fatigue-related steel frame failures tend to be benign, unlike stem, crank, fork, or handlebar failures. At 40K miles / 65K km, my 20-year-old Nishiki Competition broke at the seat tube lug of the BB shell. I have been told this is a common eventual failure point for many Japanese frames. My 25-year-old Peugeot UO-8 developed a cracked right chainstay (between the chainring and tyre clearance dimples), after 4 years of tough uphill commuter service. Chainstay cracks are apparently pretty common on older, heavily-used Peugeot frames.

Despite having broken two steel frames (plus two more which had previously been crashed and restraightened), steel remains my first choice frame material for the types of riding I do.

Old steel bikes are WAY cool, and have some of the smooooothest rides available!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hae a '72 Gitane Tour De France with a ride that is sweet!
My Masi from th e 80's is way cool too just has a little diferent carachter! I used to have A Mondia special that felt like you sitting in it rather than on it.

Ride 'till you're old too
pat

What seems "heavy" today largely seems that way because companies selling new lighter bikes have encouraged that perception.

For many years, champion racers rode the old "heavy" bikes and they weren't heavy, they were normal!

I love my 70's Nishiki road bike, and the ca. 1970 Gitane (next-to-bottom of the line, but so nice) that I had, I'd probably still be riding today if it hadn't been stolen within a year of purchase. :(

Jon R raises a valid point. For the recreational or transportation cyclist, a kg or two of extra frame weight is inconsequential. Road racing bikes typically weighed 10 or 11 kg for several decades. I am unwilling to sacrifice safety, economy, or reliability on the altar of weight.

(May I interrupt? ...er, ok, thank you very much! :) )

As for extra weight, my basic 25 pound Al Trek carries me and my
backpack full of junk everywhere. I don't care about weight like some people (as a commuter.) Compared to weight (a constant,)
other things rank more.

If the winds are against me at over 15 mph., I know I will be home a bit later, but the workout is exquisite.

(Besides, my bike and I combined weigh about the same as I used to weigh alone.)

But there is a difference between commuting on a nice sensible mid-weight bike, and a 40lbs clunker. Unfortunately, it is usually weaker riders who are riding heavier machines.

This tread brings me to a point I have wanted to ask for some time. Does anyone intentionally ride a heavy bike, or add weight to your ride for training. In other sports we trained with added weight, lead vests were common and then dropped the weight the week before competition. The boost that came with a 25lbs diet made a huge difference and increased your confidence 100 fold.

I had an early 80's steel bike that I used for years as my primary commuting and touring machine. Unfortunately, it was recently destroyed when I was hit by a car on my commute home one day. (Fortunately, I was not seriously hurt). I replaced that old bike with a brand new top-of-the-line Cannondale touring bike, curtosity of the drivers insurance company. Its a great bike and I like it alot but its just not the same. For one thing, I worry about it being stollen everywhere I go.

Alas, I found a late 70's Miyata--perfect size--and in great shape. Everything is original and functions perfectly. All for the huge sum of $50. Since I alway wanted one, and the bike has horizontal dropouts, I new wheels under it with a fixed gear slip flop hub on the rear and removed all the derailers, shifters, extra cranks and cogs. This bike is incredible to ride! It floats down the road, and the loss of all the multispeed componentry puts the weight down to very light. This machine is a screamer. Now with a little spray paint, this will be my around town bike/commuter as well as travel bike.

Using a fixed gear or single speed bike for travel is great as it is really light and getting everything readjusted is not an issue. It all fits in a surprising small canvas bag with a little reinforcing cardboard and foam. Its MUCH easier to deal with at airports than those huge, heavy bike carriers. If it gets a few scratches here and there I'll just break out the spray paint again.

I don't intentionally add weight to myself or my bike[s], but i can tell you from personal experience that few things in life are as sweet as challenging and prevailing against a strong rider on a big hill or a fast, flat interval when you are on a 40-lb mountain bike and the other guy's on an ultra-light, carbon fibre 19-pounder--the best part is that blank gaping stare....:0) Seriously, although it's definitely in your interest to shave as much weight as possible for races in oder to give yourself every chance for a win, weight itself is really just one factor to be considered in the overall performance of you and your bike as a unit. If you increase your leg strength through a program of resistance training, how many pounds is that worth? Alternatively, if you lose five pounds off your gut, the payoff is definitely more than you'd get if you simply shaved 5 pounds off your bike. If you use a car analogy, the bike is really just a chassis--you are the engine. Changes made to the "engine" are potentially way more valuable than minor weight adjustments made your bike....dontcha think?

Originally posted by zoroastr
... if you lose five pounds off your gut, the payoff is definitely more than you'd get if you simply shaved 5 pounds off your bike. If you use a car analogy, the bike is really just a chassis--you are the engine. Changes made to the "engine" are potentially way more valuable than minor weight adjustments made your bike....dontcha think?
Yes, indeed. And that's a good point.

(While on this topic, it wouldn't hurt to add that reduction in weight to dynamic parts such as wheels and crankarms and pedals can still be made at no expense to the strength and durability of a sturdy steel frame: static weight is not nearly so encumbering as the weight of rotating parts.)

Originally posted by JonR

Yes, indeed. And that's a good point.

(While on this topic, it wouldn't hurt to add that reduction in weight to dynamic parts such as wheels and crankarms and pedals can still be made at no expense to the strength and durability of a sturdy steel frame: static weight is not nearly so encumbering as the weight of rotating parts.)

To that end riding with 5lb ankle weights might help you train more power.

Really I just need to get off my F*T a** and ride.

Re: extra weight to train.

Don't know. But I commute on a bike. I don't want a heavy bike because I carry extra weight with me. But I have often wondered how much faster I would be on a 19-pounder, with no pack to carry (with a tailwind?) :D

On the flat, weight makes little difference to speed, but it does affect acceleration.
Its on the hills where you notice a lightweight bike.

Originally posted by MichaelW
On the flat, weight makes little difference to speed, but it does affect acceleration.
Its on the hills where you notice a lightweight bike.
Er...is that going UPhill or DOWN? :confused:

Over the years, I have commuted on various old steel road bikes, ranging from a 17kg 1973 Schwinn Varsity with aluminum wheels (huge improvement!) to my 11kg 1959 Capo and 1980 Peugeot PKN-10. The Varsity was indeed bulletproof and theft-resistant, but I really noticed the weight during my daily 12-percent climb and when trying to accelerate or to sprint out-of-saddle. (A frame that heavy is not "tossable.") For commuting, I like the Capo's ample mudguard clearance and comfortable ride, but it does get squirrelly when I load the rear rack even moderately. The Peugeot, with its 100cm wheelbase and beefier stays, is a good all-round commuter, as was my humble old Peugeot UO-8, before I cracked a chainstay.

Used road bikes are absolutely a buyer's market. There's an age range of bikes, like @ 1977 to 1992, let's say, that's severely undervalued. They are old enough to be out of fashion but not yet collectible. We're talking indexing with seven or six speeds, many great steel frames, bikes that sold for $2500 twenty years ago for $300-$600 now! The best part is that many are out there with light mileage and good care. C-record, Mavic SSC, Dura-Ace 6 and 7, these are the bargain groups. Happy hunting!

too true! i was at a shop near the University of Washington last week, where they specialize in refurbishing used bikes for resale and i was appalled at the bargains on the floor! Stout chromo frames with Campy groupos, slick aluminum jobs equally well-dressed, a full line of gourmet off-road metal; I had to grab my wallet with both hands, keep my head down and force myself outta the place lest i aquire yet another "must have" two-wheeled dust collector for my already burgeoning stable. I saw at least three or four very nice looking, clean, classic chromo racing frames hung with DuraAce or middle-range Campy gear for an average price of around 600-800 bucks. These bikes looked new and would have sold for a couple grand out of the box. Definitely in accord with Feldman; it's a buyer-friendly market.

Were you at Bikesmith or Recycled Cycles? I live 300k south of Seattle so don't go there often but Bikesmith always has neat stuff, haven't yet gone to RC but have heard about it.

Yes, I have a Sekai 2700. I bought in new in 1975 in the middle of a raging blizzard in December. If you want to get a good deal, buy a bike on a blizzard day! I bought a new road bike five years ago but now use the Sekai in my resistance trainer indoors in the winter. It is a great bike and still road worthy.

Yes, I have a Sekai 2700. I bought in new in 1975 in the middle of a raging blizzard in December. If you want to get a good deal, buy a bike on a blizzard day! I bought a new road bike five years ago but now use the Sekai in my resistance trainer indoors in the winter. It is a great bike and still road worthy.

7 years old...the OP is probably dead.

there are kids in first grade who weren't alive when this thread was made

there are kids in first grade who weren't alive when this thread was made

There might be a need for a thread that's titled,
What's the oldest thread on BF?

There might be a need for a thread that's titled,
What's the oldest thread on BF?

Here is the oldest I could come up with.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=1120&postcount=1

my bro has a sekai road frame and says its a pretty good frame. seems like a good brand from all i've heard.

I thought something was amiss when someone said "ulta-light" bike was 19 lbs!

This thread was probably posted on dial-up.

With apologies I am going to resurect this thread again...........I purchased a Sekai 2700 in the spring with intentions of flipping it. I dusted it off and threw on some new rubber and a leather saddle and took it out for a few tested rides and quite frankly, I fell in love with it. The OP's words could not ring more true. It is a tad heavier than a couple of other vintage rides I have, but man, this thing rides like a dream. I just listed it on CL for a substantial profit and after getting interest within 20 minutes of listing my stomach is starting to knot up. It is a tad big for me but I digress...............