Brand comparisons: opinions please!
#1
Middle-aged Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Utah
Posts: 18
Bikes: Touring, Road, Mtn, Tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I've got the Santana literature and they make a good case for themselves as the premier tandem frame builders (leaving aside recumbents, I suppose).
Anyone ridden a variety of brands? What did you think? What did you buy?
Thanks much,
J
Anyone ridden a variety of brands? What did you think? What did you buy?
Thanks much,
J
#2
Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I just bought a Cannondale MT2000, after looking a several tandems. I test road a Burley Rumba and Bike Friday tandem traveller. I also thought Santana puts out a nice catalogue and was tempted, but you pay a premium for their bikes, even the most basic models (starting at about $2800). A nicely equipped Cannondale can run under $2,000 and is very light, stiff (yet comfortable) and handles very nicely. It is a lot of tandem for the buck. You might want to look at various tandem reviews on road**************** (check the tandem section). I was trying to fit my 7 year old as a stoker and the small stoker position on the C'dale was 16", which he could fit onto without need for kidback adapter or crank arm shorteners.
#3
Middle-aged Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Utah
Posts: 18
Bikes: Touring, Road, Mtn, Tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Thanks for the reference to the review site
Steve,
Thanks for the review site reference (somehow I hadn't found that one in all my looking)--one minor point: the site doesn't have an "s"--www.roadbikereview.com.
The info in the tandem section is rather light too. Let's all chip in our personal info to make this a more useful reference!
I think we've about settled on a used model as a way to keep the price down.
Ciao,
J
Thanks for the review site reference (somehow I hadn't found that one in all my looking)--one minor point: the site doesn't have an "s"--www.roadbikereview.com.
The info in the tandem section is rather light too. Let's all chip in our personal info to make this a more useful reference!
I think we've about settled on a used model as a way to keep the price down.
Ciao,
J
#4
Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
My girl friend and I also purchased a Cannondale MT2000 after test riding quite a few. The Santana's are beautiful bikes, but I feel the C'dale is a best buy for the money. light, responsive, good components etc. and less than $2000.
#5
Member
Join Date: May 2000
Location: New Brunswick, NJ USA
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
My girlfriends parents just bought a Bike Friday (Family Touring model) which we were able to ride last night.
It seems like a good bike for the money (less than a grand I think). Solid build with decent components. The only real problem with it I had was that the riding position seemed very upright for both of us (I'm 6', she's 5'4"). That can probably be fixed in the front with a longer stem, but I don't see a solution for the back.
It's the first tandem I've rode, so I couldn't say too much for it, but it seemed like a great bike for weekend rides and such. I didn't feel that it would be comfortable for long tours, though.
It seems like a good bike for the money (less than a grand I think). Solid build with decent components. The only real problem with it I had was that the riding position seemed very upright for both of us (I'm 6', she's 5'4"). That can probably be fixed in the front with a longer stem, but I don't see a solution for the back.
It's the first tandem I've rode, so I couldn't say too much for it, but it seemed like a great bike for weekend rides and such. I didn't feel that it would be comfortable for long tours, though.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I think it is imperative that the stoker must be very satisfied with the fit and feel of the bike. If the stoker's not happy, aint nobody happy
We bought a Santana Visa, looked at the co-motions and a couple of other Santana's. I loved the co-motion, but my wife didn't care for the soft ride beam, hence the Visa.
We bought a Santana Visa, looked at the co-motions and a couple of other Santana's. I loved the co-motion, but my wife didn't care for the soft ride beam, hence the Visa.
#7
Newbie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
We have had a year 2000 RT3000 Cannondale for six months now and really love it. However, I had to replace the Coda seat immediately because it was so uncomfortable. Now we are having major problems with the Coda rear suspension post which is close to seizing after being in the rain only twice.
#8
Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I previously owned a Burley Samba Softride. My stoker disliked the beam so we sold it and are ordering a Calfee Tetra Tetra custom carbon tandem. We test rode Santana, (Al and Ti) Seven Ti, Co-Motion steel, and several Calfee's before deciding on this one. The Calfees ride is the smoothest we experienced, on par with the Seven Ti. The Calfee has quicker steering geometry than most other tandems on the market. I recommend it highly if cost isn't an object and you prefer sporty riding to touring.
The bike will weigh approx. 30lbs.
The bike will weigh approx. 30lbs.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I saw my first Calfee in Pendelton earlier this summer. What gorgeous bikes! Let us know how you like it. Are you going to use it for racing, time trials or ??? I am trying to get my stoker to do a couple of time trials with me on our Santana this summer. She loves the speed, but needs to ditch that heart rate monitor - or learn to really enjoy that anaerobic zone!
#10
Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
We're going for the ultimate beauty. Spec includes that "shade-shifting" pain that will change color from a silver-blue to magenta depending on the sun's angle. We're going to leave the forks and rear stays clearcoated carbon. DaVinci crankset, Ultegra, XTR, Mavic CXP-33's and Phil hubs.
WE don't do any formal competition, just like to ride fast and my stoker likes having "the best" in her bikes. We do century rides a few times a year. I might be able to convince her to do the Davis Double on the Calfee next year. We'd trade off stoking.
I did a TT once on my single, but I don't like pushing that hard. DC's are my most extreme form of self-punishment except for an occasional 6hr. Mtb Team race.
WE don't do any formal competition, just like to ride fast and my stoker likes having "the best" in her bikes. We do century rides a few times a year. I might be able to convince her to do the Davis Double on the Calfee next year. We'd trade off stoking.
I did a TT once on my single, but I don't like pushing that hard. DC's are my most extreme form of self-punishment except for an occasional 6hr. Mtb Team race.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The paint job I saw on the Calfee was Superb! Very attractive bike, nice lines, clean joints, impeccable paint. I’d be afraid to put one on my roof rack! Always good to have a stoker with taste.
You’d trade off stoking for a double century? We don’t have that option due to the size difference. My rear admiral is starting to trust my judgement a little more, but I’d love to have her up front (for limited periods of time)….. I’m sure it would be fresh perspective for both of us.
You’d trade off stoking for a double century? We don’t have that option due to the size difference. My rear admiral is starting to trust my judgement a little more, but I’d love to have her up front (for limited periods of time)….. I’m sure it would be fresh perspective for both of us.
#12
Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yes, the cable routing (in frame, a'la Klein) is a nice touch, and all those sexy bulges... I think the color shifting paint is going to be awesome on it.
My stoker is 5'4" and I'm 5'8". We're having the frame sized as a slight compromise for standover in front (a little short for me and a little tall for her).
She took me on a 35 mile club ride, once for my birthday, as the stoker. It was great. You should have seen me dive for the brakes at the first stop-sign. LOL! Some habits are so hard to break!
We figured, on the DC, that trading off would help keep us "fresher" than being stuck in one place all that time.
BTW, you can e-mail me at maury@lowepro.com if you wish.
My stoker is 5'4" and I'm 5'8". We're having the frame sized as a slight compromise for standover in front (a little short for me and a little tall for her).
She took me on a 35 mile club ride, once for my birthday, as the stoker. It was great. You should have seen me dive for the brakes at the first stop-sign. LOL! Some habits are so hard to break!
We figured, on the DC, that trading off would help keep us "fresher" than being stuck in one place all that time.
BTW, you can e-mail me at maury@lowepro.com if you wish.
#13
Newbie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
We (wife and I) just got a CoMotion Supremo. WOW. Our first outing was the NW Tandem rally. We got it to replace our 8 year old CoMotion Double Espresso. They're made right here in Eugene and we wouldn't really consider anything else. We both felt that if we never rode the bike again, we got our $4000 worth in that one weekend.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 488
Bikes: Kona Dr Dew, Lemond Le Alp, Mongoss NX-7, Trek T200 Tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I've heard that Trek will be re-entering the tandem market next year. Should be interesting to see what they do this time.
#15
Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Rode the Santana (Alum. with couplers, and Ti), Seven Ti, Several Calfee Tetra Tetra's (Carbon), Co-Motion steel, ibis cousin itt and I owned a Steel Jeffrey Richman Custom and a Burley Samba Softride.
We jsut took deliery of our own Calfee after months of anticipation. It was a real close call between the Seven and the Calfee. The Carbon tandem's ride is incredible. Strong, stiff in the right places and bump absorbing in the right places. It's a hard to describe sensation.
We were willing to pay ridiculous amounts for what we felt was our ultimate lifetime tandem.
IMHO the Calfee is the quickest handling tandem on the market.
Santana is at the other extreme with a really stable but slower steering geometry. CoMotions and the Burly Paso Doble are great mid-priced (compared to the Ti and carbon offerings), well built and still pretty sporty bikes.
We jsut took deliery of our own Calfee after months of anticipation. It was a real close call between the Seven and the Calfee. The Carbon tandem's ride is incredible. Strong, stiff in the right places and bump absorbing in the right places. It's a hard to describe sensation.
We were willing to pay ridiculous amounts for what we felt was our ultimate lifetime tandem.
IMHO the Calfee is the quickest handling tandem on the market.
Santana is at the other extreme with a really stable but slower steering geometry. CoMotions and the Burly Paso Doble are great mid-priced (compared to the Ti and carbon offerings), well built and still pretty sporty bikes.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Maury - did you get the Tetra built up yet? Link us some photo's eh? We are on hold with replacing the Visa until we test ride the RT 1000 Frame. It's been a long few months without a twofer.
#17
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I've had three tandems in the last 35 years all bought used. The first was a Gitane with double lateral frame (old style) but the heavier tubes actually gave it a fair amount of stiffness. Next a short wheel base, Bob Jackson curved seat tube, 531single bike tubing, again double laterals but thin pencil stays. Very responsive, very light (for its time) and a little whippy unless you are very steady riders and don't try to stand up while climbing. The short back end was good for my short wife. Then an older Santa: longer, very stable, stiff enough to climb out of the saddle but not as much fun. The new ones are more responsive, I believe, as are the Co-motions.
Michael
Michael
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Meridian, Idaho
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Hi,
We rode an aluminum Santana Sovereign for 4 years and then purchased a Calfee Tetra.
The Santana was a great bike, stiff and stable.
The Calfee steers a little quicker (more like a single bike) and is much more comfy on chip sealed roads her in SW Idaho.
I would suggest steel over aluminum if your roads are rough.
I have never ridden a co-motion but see lots of happy owners on them.
The descision was easy after a test ride. We also test road a built up Seven tandem that was nice but it was not set up for a rear disc brake, which is what we wanted. In the end the stoker selected the bike and we rally enjoy it.
rob
We rode an aluminum Santana Sovereign for 4 years and then purchased a Calfee Tetra.
The Santana was a great bike, stiff and stable.
The Calfee steers a little quicker (more like a single bike) and is much more comfy on chip sealed roads her in SW Idaho.
I would suggest steel over aluminum if your roads are rough.
I have never ridden a co-motion but see lots of happy owners on them.
The descision was easy after a test ride. We also test road a built up Seven tandem that was nice but it was not set up for a rear disc brake, which is what we wanted. In the end the stoker selected the bike and we rally enjoy it.
rob
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 11,016
Bikes: Custom Zona c/f tandem + Scott Plasma single
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 19 Times
in
11 Posts
Have ridden 30-some brands/models of tandems in our 35 years as tandemistas.
That includes all major and many custom US brands, Euro and Asian twicers, from the $400 real steel to $13,000 titanium.
Our personal tandems have included:
1. Follis, French steel production, put about 5,000 'learning miles' on that one.
2. Assenmacher, US, Reynolds 521, cuistom, 64.000 miles.
3. Colin Laing, US, again 531, custom, 56,000 miles.
4. Co-Motion, US, Tange Prestige, custom, 57,000 miles.
5. Zona, US, carbon fiber, custom, 30,000+ miles (so far!)
Our choice for freame:
1. Carbon fiber, 2. steel, 3. titanium 4 aluminum.
Have not yet ridden bamboo tandem (did ride a Calfee single: great) or magnesium.
If price is not an overbearing issue: carbon fiber.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
That includes all major and many custom US brands, Euro and Asian twicers, from the $400 real steel to $13,000 titanium.
Our personal tandems have included:
1. Follis, French steel production, put about 5,000 'learning miles' on that one.
2. Assenmacher, US, Reynolds 521, cuistom, 64.000 miles.
3. Colin Laing, US, again 531, custom, 56,000 miles.
4. Co-Motion, US, Tange Prestige, custom, 57,000 miles.
5. Zona, US, carbon fiber, custom, 30,000+ miles (so far!)
Our choice for freame:
1. Carbon fiber, 2. steel, 3. titanium 4 aluminum.
Have not yet ridden bamboo tandem (did ride a Calfee single: great) or magnesium.
If price is not an overbearing issue: carbon fiber.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
#21
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,322
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1461 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times
in
380 Posts
Doesn't mean Santanas are bad bikes. It does mean you might want to question some of Sanatana's claims about their proprietary approaches.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 11,016
Bikes: Custom Zona c/f tandem + Scott Plasma single
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 19 Times
in
11 Posts
Agree with above statement by Merlinextralight.
Yes, have ridden several models of Santanas throughout the years. Actually spent 3 months riding a 'tana; rode like a Cadillac but it just had no 'oomph' when stepping on the pedals; handling was way to neutral/slow for us and it was a bit on the heavy side. Their sales hype is a bit egregious and even annoying. Do they build a good tandem? Yes, but others build just as well, if not better.
Ride and compare . . . you are the ultimate judge.
Yes, have ridden several models of Santanas throughout the years. Actually spent 3 months riding a 'tana; rode like a Cadillac but it just had no 'oomph' when stepping on the pedals; handling was way to neutral/slow for us and it was a bit on the heavy side. Their sales hype is a bit egregious and even annoying. Do they build a good tandem? Yes, but others build just as well, if not better.
Ride and compare . . . you are the ultimate judge.
#23
shut up and ride
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: noho
Posts: 1,947
Bikes: supersix hi-mod,burley duet tandem,woodrup track,cannondale cross,specialized road
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Santana does make an impressive case for themselves. However, a lot of people find their marketing literature to be over the top.
Doesn't mean Santanas are bad bikes. It does mean you might want to question some of Sanatana's claims about their proprietary approaches.
Doesn't mean Santanas are bad bikes. It does mean you might want to question some of Sanatana's claims about their proprietary approaches.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
I have a Santana and love it. However, if you're going to spend between $3k and $12K for a bike, take a trip to a place that has several different bikes that you can try. Only then can you make a good decision.
#25
Version 7.0
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,143
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1350 Post(s)
Liked 2,496 Times
in
1,465 Posts