vintagerando

This is an age old problem. Usually you can bang the heck out of it and get it free. I actually don't want to damage this Cinelli stem or Cinelli handlebars. So, I tried putting the front wheel back on and hold the wheel with my legs. But, I cannot get enough leverage to remove the stem/handle bars. Any suggestions on how to hold the stem or forks while I try and crank the stem out? (FYI: I did plug the top of the stem and fill the stem from the under side with PB Penetraing stuff.)

FBinNY 

I don't want to insult you but have to ask a question.

I see you've removed the draw bolt. Before doing so, did you use it to push the wedge down and free the stem?

vintagerando

yes....the wedge is free, it dropped out the fork.

Miele Man

COc cartridge emptied against the section of stem exposed above the steerer tube MIGHT shrink the stem enough to free it up.

Cheers

vintagerando

you mean spray it with the CO2?

canklecat

Assuming the wedge trick has already been tried and didn't loosen it, I'd try vibration to assist the penetrating oil. I've watched a few DIY videos on separating quill stems, etc., that were jammed from galvanic corrosion, and it was painful to watch the fellows repeatedly trying soaking and whacking and grunting, sweating wrenching in sessions over days and weeks. Vibration would take a lot of work out of the chore while it's soaking.

Several years ago when I encountered the dreaded German green grease that turned to a sort of plasticky resin, I'd assist the penetrating oil/solvent with vibration for a day or so. That stuff was used in everything from 1940s cameras to 1970s air guns. After the green grease dried out it resembled a hard but crumbly plastic. PITA. For restoring stuff like Agfa cameras I'd soak the entire lens assembly in a jeweler's ultrasound cleaner for a day or so. To remove the stuff from a Hermann Weihrauch airgun I rigged up some sort of makeshift vibrator against the airgun's metal compression tube - I think I used an old muscle massager that vibrated like crazy but mostly in the user's hand rather than the business end. It was one of those shaped like a clothes iron or something similar. Use duct tape, elastic tape or whatever to attach the vibration doodad to the stem. Whatever you use for a solvent, be sure it won't be ignited by the vibration device.

BTW, I found Sheath polarizing gun oil to be a pretty effective penetrating solvent. It seems to find nooks and crannies and crevices even better than WD-40 or the usual penetrating oils. Doesn't take much either.

FBinNY 

OK, now here's how to free it (with luck).

You'll need a 2x4 about 2' long, plus a small piece cut from one end. You might also need a friend to help.

Step one. Remove the front wheel and stand the bike up with the 2x4 supporting the crown directly to the floor. Using the smaller block as protection, deliver a solid blow to the top of the stem directly over the bolt hole. You'll need to be serious here because it'll take decent energy to break the bonds holding the stem to the fork. The goal it to drop the stem 1/16" or so, just enough to know it moved.

Step two.

Tie the 2x4 to the blades of the fork, so it's supporting the stem from below the angle. You want to be sure it's pocketed in the angle nicely, and may need to use a rasp to shape the end so it does. be sure that it's well jammed into the elbow and tied securely to the blades in that position. Now pick up the frame and treat it like an pick ax with the end of the 2x4 being the blade, and swing it down into the floor or better yet the curb outside as if starting a trench. This method allows you to pound the stem upward using the frame's inertia alone as the dolly, and avoids any risk of denting anything (unless you didn't tie the 2x4 to the fork properly). Once the stem begins to move, you can modulate the force so you don't slam the fork when the stem comes free, or have a friend hold the frame while you hammer the 2x4.

IME - the above method gets the greatest amount of power into the process without stressing the frame.

Good luck

BTW - if you don't mind sacrificing the stem, you can skip steps one and two and use a muffler shop's air hammer up in the stem's angle to drive it upward while a friend braces the frame against a well padded part of his body. Be sure the chisel blade is well dulled, so it pounds the stem without simply cutting through it.

Miele Man

That is correct. If you have a CO2 inflator you can put the cartridge onto that then put the nozzle onto an old Schrader valve stem cut out of an old tube. The CO2 will drastically cool the stem. If you start near the top of the stem the cooling will go downward and not cool the steerer too.

Cheers

Bike tinker man

I just helped a friend two weeks ago to release one he was stuck with, obliviously the wedge is free & out, & its well soaked in penetrating oil etc :-

giving the stem a wack having covered it with a piece of strong wood so it does not mark it, or use a large wooden mallet, or a copper hammer, & supporting the forks under the bridge so the impact is not taken on the fork end should show some or any slight movement.

1/ We used old handlebars put back in place.
2/ piece 4 x 2 timber held very close to the fork bridge - not the fork end where the hub fits.
3/ one holds the handlebars, I turned the the timber, its best holding this parallel between you.

This took a fair bit of leverage but it turned then very slowly twist it out, the essence is not to use extreme force which will surely damage but if corrosion between the dis-similar metals has set in, its the really the same logic as a really stuck seat post.

mark2810

Try freezing it with CO2. I've never tried it but if people say it works.. Try using cheater bars. If all else fails cut the stem, cut the remaining quill to wings, bend the wings together, rotate out.

This brings back memories of a Grand Prix. Oh.. how I feel sorry for you. I don't even remember how I took mine out. I went past the cutting of the quill stem...
I just remember a lot of sweat blood and tears. Kinda erased that period in time from my memory.

SJX426 

@Bike tinker man - bad approach. in 2009 I was looking for a replacement frame. I found a nice Bianchi in Celeste. I didn't buy it because someone used your method to remove a stem. How did I know? The flat spots on the back side of one fork leg and one on the front of the other.

rmfnla

There was a post on BF the other day that had that same problem; I'll try to locate it...

Andy_K 

I once had a stem frozen in an old Gitane frame. I tried every trick I could find to get it out (heat, cold, ammonia, penetrating oil, extreme force, etc.) and it just wouldn't budge. Finally I gave up and just rode the bike with the stem where it was. After a month or so of riding the bike like that I noticed one day that the handlebars were misaligned and they hadn't been before. It took me a minute to realize what that meant. I loosened the stem bolt and it slid right out. Apparently the stem bolt had been slightly loose the whole time and the constant vibration and jarring from riding the bike had broken whatever bonds of corrosion were holding the stem in place.

I don't know if this is repeatable. Certainly it won't work in all cases. It might work in some.

corrado33

Honestly, do what you did. Seal the end, put it upside down, and 2x a day (when you leave and when you come back) drench it in penetrating oil. In a few weeks to a month or so it'll come free.

Instead of using a CO2 inflator cartridge, just go to your local gas station and buy dry ice. It's the solid version and will cool things much more effectively. (Note, don't touch it with bare hands, it'll burn you, and it also makes a screaming sound when it comes in contact with metal, so be aware of that...I find it amusing.)

Miele Man

I can imagine the consequences if that stem has come loose SUDDENLY whilst the bicycle was at speed or in traffic. Riding with an unsecured stem is risky - very risky in my opinion and i'd never try it.

Cheers

Andy_K 

Yes, it's a bad idea. I didn't realize it wasn't tight. I wonder if it would still work nearly as well with the bolt tight. You could try replicating this in the garage, but it would take a really long time to apply as many soft blows as it would get in a mile of riding.

What I'm suggesting, and I realize it's kind of a desperate measure, is penetrating oil, ride, repeat. But as you say, definitely with the stem secured beyond just the corrosive binding.

FBinNY 

It's not as risky as one may think. Steering forces on bicycles are miniscule, and are as much by body english as by handlebar. Unless you catch a rut or odd bump at an angle, odds are you could ride for hours with a pretty loose stem without knowing.

Miele Man

Or you could be riding along at speed and hit a pothole/expansion joint/a crack in the road and almost instantly be lying on the ground. I'd NEVER recommend riding with an unsecured stem. If the binder bolt is snug then there's not that much chance that a seized stem will come loose.

Cheers

Rubato

I don't want to hijack a thread but I've been working on a frozen stem for the past 10 days. Soaking in PBB, soaking with ammonia, freezing w/dry ice etc. Mounting the stem in a monster vise with the bike upside-down, I was able to turn the fork with a 30" brass pipe. The fork screeched and snapped as it rotated but it would not, even with a couple dozen revolutions, loosen it's grip. I cut the stem 1" above the steered and hacksawed the frozen section all the way lengthwise in 4 places. No luck. I turned to a machine shop this afternoon and Thor spent an hour drilling out the recalcitrant stem. $100. IF the threads at the top of the steered are still useable, I saved a custom fork. Most shops would probably be more but it can be done.

FBinNY 

Of course, No one should intentionally ride with a loose stem. But in the years I was in retail, I saw countless bikes brought in for repair with very loose stems. So loose that almost no torque was needed to twist the bar while holding the front wheel from turning. The owners never knew.
if the bike fell, the bar twisted, so they twisted it back. No big deal.

These days threadless stems need to be kept tight so as to maintain headset adjustment, but BITD we consciously kept our quill stems much looser, or what we called "race tight" so in a crash the bar could twist reducing the crash stress. The guideline was that when twisting the bar, the fork blades should flex slightly before the stem slipped.

Miele Man

Yet people advised someone with a seized stem to ride it with it unsecured until/if the stem loosened. My concern is that the stem could loosen SUDDENLY with ver serious consequences. INHO, telling someone to ride with a seized but unsecured stem is very poor advice.

I hope the OP can get the stem loose without damaging the fork or frame.

Cheers

vintagerando

no luck yet...

vintagerando

I just cannot figure out how to secure the fork. I appreciate the advice here, put cannot follow what is being described.

vintagerando

FBinNY:you lost me here: Tie the 2x4 to the blades of the fork, so it's supporting the stem from below the angle. You want to be sure it's pocketed in the angle nicely, and may need to use a rasp to shape the end so it does. be sure that it's well jammed into the elbow and tied securely to the blades in that position.

FBinNY 

Picture this. The goal is to be able to swing the frame over your head like a pick ax and down onto the 2x4 so when it hits the ground, the impact is delivered up against the bottom of the stem. You're tying it to the fork for stability so it doesn't go sideways on impact, and also so it doesn't fall off and have you slamming the fork into the pavement.

This works based on the inertia of the frame stopped by the stem, in a way similar to how body shops use slide hammers.

BTW -- be sure to do step one -- pushing the stem in a bit -- first. Driving it out by this method, puts tension into the top of the steerer, and if the bonds are strong, can tear the fork apart at the threads.