Carbon Fiber Brake Cables
#1
My name is Mike, not Cal
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Carbon Fiber Brake Cables
Seems sensible--no stretching, would probably weigh less than a steel cable (not that it would make a difference).
What's the problem? Difficult to cut, low tensile strength, cost, excessive friction with housing, gets kinked easily?
Or does it exist any my cursory Google search just didn't turn it up?
What's the problem? Difficult to cut, low tensile strength, cost, excessive friction with housing, gets kinked easily?
Or does it exist any my cursory Google search just didn't turn it up?
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 252
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Probably snap at the pinch bolt which would crush it,and "carbon fibre" is actually a composite of the carbon fibres and (usually) an epoxy resin.Hardened epoxy resin certainly isn't flexible enough to be used as a cable.
Kevlar,on the other hand...
Kevlar,on the other hand...
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,725
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5793 Post(s)
Liked 2,584 Times
in
1,432 Posts
It's a safety issue. There's marginal weight savings and the risk of sudden unpredictable failure is too high.
Someone brought out both brake and gear wires with lots of fanfare a few years ago, and the consensus was OK for gears but not brakes, though I don't think either is made anymore.
Someone brought out both brake and gear wires with lots of fanfare a few years ago, and the consensus was OK for gears but not brakes, though I don't think either is made anymore.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,470
Bikes: -1973 Motobecane Mirage -197? Velosolex L'Etoile -'71 Raleigh Super Course
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Some of the aramids like Spectra, Kevlar, Dyneema and Amsteel Blue would seem like they'd be naturals for the application. Spectra, for example, has a one-time, 3% stretch and then that's all it ever stretches until it breaks. But they are all difficult to cut, and they are all difficult to tie knots in. They are very slick, you see, and any knot placed under load tends to just creep on out. Sleeving the line solves this problem but adds others. Honestly, it's more hassle than it's worth.
#6
Banned
Need a budget like a Formula One race car team, for a starter..
note the competition between the Italian and the Japanese manufacturers
in electronic shifters.
A number if years ago Magura Made a Hydraulic Road bike caliper to bolt on,
in place of the typical road side pull caliper .
A clever bit of engineering, a double piston spreads a lever on each side ,
above a pivot, which forces the brake pads to squeeze the rim.
but the scheme was not weightless..
They have continued making a hydraulic rim brake, that goes on V brake posts,
now in 20th year of production.
Hydro-stop, HS33 is a very good brake set, I have them on a Trekking bike,
I bought a few years ago..
hose is plastic, so that part is lighter than a steel cable and steel housing.
note the competition between the Italian and the Japanese manufacturers
in electronic shifters.
A number if years ago Magura Made a Hydraulic Road bike caliper to bolt on,
in place of the typical road side pull caliper .
A clever bit of engineering, a double piston spreads a lever on each side ,
above a pivot, which forces the brake pads to squeeze the rim.
but the scheme was not weightless..
They have continued making a hydraulic rim brake, that goes on V brake posts,
now in 20th year of production.
Hydro-stop, HS33 is a very good brake set, I have them on a Trekking bike,
I bought a few years ago..
hose is plastic, so that part is lighter than a steel cable and steel housing.
Last edited by fietsbob; 11-11-10 at 12:44 PM.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,128
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 34 Times
in
27 Posts
CF cables??? I wouldn't have imagined that CF would work eventually work it's way into our cables too........thought the stuff wouldn't be able to stand any laterat bending forces that our cables go through as it makes thos tight turns towards our dreailleurs and in our brake lever assemblies.
Manufacturers seem to sprinkle CF on many compnents these days to give it a sort of "fairy dust effect" to attract the techy gear heads amongst us.
Never really thought that the steel or SS cables we've been using kept us from cycling as fast and braking as well as we can with our sidepull brakes, so once again this looks like mostly a solution looking for a problem. Frankly, I'd rather see them develop more lightweight hydraulic disc brakes for road/race bikes to get rid of the cables all together, once and for all......
............Dang!!, when's that aluminum cased CLB brake cable set that I just ordered come in??
Chombi
Manufacturers seem to sprinkle CF on many compnents these days to give it a sort of "fairy dust effect" to attract the techy gear heads amongst us.
Never really thought that the steel or SS cables we've been using kept us from cycling as fast and braking as well as we can with our sidepull brakes, so once again this looks like mostly a solution looking for a problem. Frankly, I'd rather see them develop more lightweight hydraulic disc brakes for road/race bikes to get rid of the cables all together, once and for all......
............Dang!!, when's that aluminum cased CLB brake cable set that I just ordered come in??
Chombi
#9
cab horn
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,353
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 26 Times
in
19 Posts
I don't see anywhere where they say this
https://www.powercordz.com/catalog/
Power Cordz™ utilize a synthetic fiber called Zylon HM or PBO. It’s stronger than steel and twice as strong as Kevlar. PBO is a rigid-rod isotropic crystal polymer that has superior tensile strength and modulus of elasticity. Simply stated - Zylon is very stiff and strong, it’s superior cable material. A slick nylon protective coating encases around 10,000 PBO fibers. The cord is then bonded (using a top-secret patented process) to a high quality anodized anchor. The bond has a breaking strength of over 600lbs which is the same as steel at 25% the weight of steel.
#10
Senior Member
The actual fibers that are carbon wear quickly and easily from abrasion. It's only when they are bound in a matrix as we usually see them that it is strong stuff. So carbon cables is pretty much a non starter as ideas go. Kevlar fibers are themselves fairly abrasive and would cut into the inner liner of the housings. I know this because I've actually used loose kevlar tow in my model airplanes. If I draw the fibers over the balsa under tension they cut into the wood quite alarmingly. So carbon or kevlar would both need to be jacketed with something such as nylon or some other protective layer. In the one case to protect the inner fibers and in the other to avoid the fiber cutting into the housing liner. Then factor in the difficulties of clamping them at the brake caliper and you have a number of good reasons for sticking with stainless cable.
#11
Senior Member
What's wrong with good old stainless steel? Lasts longer than the cable housing and doesn't cost an arm and a leg or the servitude of your first-born.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
That's the same type of argument I've used to defend standard high-grade steel ball bearings against the latest high-zoot ceramics and you've seen how much heated controversy that's caused.
#13
My name is Mike, not Cal
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Some of the aramids like Spectra, Kevlar, Dyneema and Amsteel Blue would seem like they'd be naturals for the application. Spectra, for example, has a one-time, 3% stretch and then that's all it ever stretches until it breaks. But they are all difficult to cut, and they are all difficult to tie knots in. They are very slick, you see, and any knot placed under load tends to just creep on out. Sleeving the line solves this problem but adds others. Honestly, it's more hassle than it's worth.
#15
Banned
A replica of an old British roadster with rod brakes, all done in Carbon fiber might work.
substituting the rigid carbon fiber composite, for rigid metal could work.
That is how it is generally used, it seems, so far.
substituting the rigid carbon fiber composite, for rigid metal could work.
That is how it is generally used, it seems, so far.
Last edited by fietsbob; 11-11-10 at 10:52 PM.
#16
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6220 Post(s)
Liked 4,221 Times
in
2,367 Posts
...has issues with UV radiation. And I don't know that the fibers would like the pinch bolt any more than carbon would.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#17
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6220 Post(s)
Liked 4,221 Times
in
2,367 Posts
Some of the aramids like Spectra, Kevlar, Dyneema and Amsteel Blue would seem like they'd be naturals for the application. Spectra, for example, has a one-time, 3% stretch and then that's all it ever stretches until it breaks. But they are all difficult to cut, and they are all difficult to tie knots in. They are very slick, you see, and any knot placed under load tends to just creep on out. Sleeving the line solves this problem but adds others. Honestly, it's more hassle than it's worth.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#18
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,366
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6220 Post(s)
Liked 4,221 Times
in
2,367 Posts
Poly(p-phenylene-2,6-benzobisoxazole (PBO) fiber degrade by UV and visible light, seawater and chafing and is therefore protected by a synthetic melted-on jacket.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,547
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1529 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times
in
510 Posts
If you want to save weight on cables, you could try using a shift cable for your rear brake...
#20
smitten by саша
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 523
Bikes: Salsa La Cruz with Rohloff; mutt parts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
or just get rid of the freewheel. although then hipsters will sneer because it's not SS, and conventional roadies will just be baffled.
on other hand, CF brake cable would be a perfect match for CF socks or CF spoke nipples.
on other hand, CF brake cable would be a perfect match for CF socks or CF spoke nipples.
#21
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,504
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7350 Post(s)
Liked 2,475 Times
in
1,438 Posts
Steel is a wonderful material. There's nothing wrong with it, and it doesn't need replacement.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.