epic.legacy

First off, hi to everyone. I'm new to the forums and hope to learn a lot of from you guys. Recently I've been getting into bike repair and have been learning as much as I can. I hope this will be a valuable resource. Now, let's get down to business.

Bike: 2002 Specialized Hotrock

(https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...9&menuItemId=0)

About a week ago I noticed that my rear wheel was rubbing against the chainstays. I would stop, adjust the wheel, and keep riding. A few minutes later it starts rubbing again. When I got home I go and take a look at it, and to my unpleasant surprise I find that my axle has snapped in half! I guess this was bound to happen because the axle has always been too short (didn't rest in the dropouts). I know it was really dumb of me to be riding it like that, but the quick release managed to hold the wheel on.

Anyway, I've been doing a bit of research, both here and on the interwebs, and have a few general questions.

I've read that freewheels are notorious for snapping axles, which my bike has. And though this may not have been the problem originally, because the axle was too short to begin with, I want to make sure I get this right before I order a new axle.
(https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/free-k7.html)

From what I understand, before you get a new axle, you want to check your frame and dropout alignments since that also plays a role in snapped axles. I understand that I can do a general frame alignment test with the string method, which I have yet to do. I didn't find anything on cheap ways to do a dropout alignment test, and I'd rather not spend $80 for the tool (the frame alignment tool is even more, so I'm opting for the string method since I figure my bike is pretty good. I guess we'll find out).

Does anyone know of a way of checking dropout alignment without the tool (something like the string method)?

Now, I went ahead and measured my frame spacing and understand that my new axle is generally about 11mm longer than this. It can be shorter, about 1-2mm past the lock nuts will suffice (where axle length is 2-4mm longer than the frame spacing).
(https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html)

Is this correct?

I didn't mention what type of hub it has, but I figured it's the one that came with the bike, and despite having too short an axle, I know I just need to get the right axle and can adjust the O.L.D. measurement with spacers. I guess I could be making a big assumption here -- I mean, if the axle was wrong, who knows if the hubs are right for the bike. They fit in there though, so I'll take my chances. Speaking of hubs however, and this isn't something pertaining to my bike, but more of a general question. Let's say you get a hub and it has no bearings in it...

How do you know what size bearings to put in there?

I guess the last thing I wanted to mention was that when I would take my rear wheel in and out of the bike, when I would tighten or loosen the QR it would rub into the dropouts since the axle was too short. I'm worried that there could be significant damage here. The paint there is gone and I get metal filings from the rubbing. I'll try to post a picture...

Should I be worried about that though?

I mean, I feel dumb even mentioning it because I knew it wasn't right, but I didn't bother to fix it, and I didn't take the wheel off just a ton, so I didn't think too much of it. In hindsight though, I realize this was very stupid of me.

This is my everyday bike, so I use it quite a lot.

Anyway, I don't want to take too much more time, but I would appreciate your responses to let me know if I'm on the right track about how I'm going about replacing the axle, if I'm wrong anywhere, or need to know something more, please let me know. Thanks for all your help in advance! Happy riding!

fietsbob

Need 2 axles, some nuts and washers, you bolt each on an opposing dropout,
with a gap in the middle.. they will be direcrly opposite each other,
if the dropout is square, offset, if it is not..

advantage to the shop tool is it's robust, and serves as the leverage
to bend the dropouts
itself..

Should only do this tweaking on steel frames, aluminum if not straight ,
you may be SOL.

bending and breaking casn be near same thing,,

Suggest going to the Dealer for Specialized brand.

gyozadude

Are you sure you have a freewheel? The URL you posted to a 2002 Hotrock has a cassette, which implies freehub with decent axle support. It's unlikely to bend the axle or break it unless under major stress (like off road jumps). And as long as there's a small amount or axle protruding, the main force holding the hub in place is the friction of the lock nut face on the drop-out. A longer axle is a good idea if planning to replace. But it sounds like we haven't root-caused the reason for the axle breaking. Note: if you plan to go to your LBS to buy a replacement axle, bring your axle hardware and quick release to screw onto new axle and the QR skewer to test with.

Charles Ramsey

https://share.ovi.com/media/currentre...resident.10052 Solid axles from wheels manufacturing will bend and not break so they are a bit safer.

fietsbob

I installed a 'Wheels of Boulder ' Campagnolo replacement QR axle, in my classic Campag hubs.

And have not broken them, 2 bikes. freewheel .. [but they are not my daily ride, any more]

I think Campag tempering is a bit brittle hard, the other more ductile.

FBinNY 

While usually good, this method isn't reliable because the dropouts may be toed in or out by the same amount and still pass this test.

A better variation is to use a full axle with the nuts and washer, bolting one side, and seeing if the other aligns with the opposite dropout. Then reverse the procedure. This only works with vertical dropouts.

With horizontal dropouts, mount and center a true wheel, using the washers on the outside. Trace or scribe reference marks, so you can locate the gauge axle in the same place later on, than proceed as with verticals.

The other thing you can do to prevent axle breakage is to use the largest possible diameter locknut on the right (or both sides). This helps support the axle via a cantilever through the spacers reducing stress. Back in the era of freewheels, Campy, and Suntour hubs had reputations for stronger axles, (and maybe they did), but the real difference was in the much larger lock nut diameter than most others.

fietsbob

I expect It's a meaningless gesture, Its an aluminum frame ..
so cannot do much about it , bend once too often = breaking ..

OP? take the bike back to the dealer.. they have the tool,
and if its buggered up
replacing the frame is the only viable solution..

oldbobcat

And don't get to obsessed with dropout alignment unless the frame has taken a hit somewhere. Most axles are broken after the bearings come loose and the bike continues to be ridden a few hundred miles.

epic.legacy

Thanks for all the help and support guys. Super awesome!

Here's an update:

String test revealed a good frame. I went ahead and tried something like fietsbob's idea for checking my dropouts and those seems to be in good order. After reading FBinNY's post though, I think I'll do one last check. Thanks to the both of you for that tip though. Saves me $80. I'll probably get that tool someday though, for as fietsbob said "advantage to the shop tool is it's robust, and serves as the leverage to bend the dropouts itself." Fortunately, I don't have to worry about that, so it seems. Even if they were out of whack, considering it's an aluminum frame, I probably would've been SOL as fietsbob stated.

To answer gyozadude's question, yes I am sure I have a freewheel and not a cassette. Fortunately, I do know the difference between those two. Thanks for asking though. I have found though, that far too many websites use freewheel and cassette interchangeably adding to the chaos! Although, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure that the wheel set are the original ones that came with the bike, which could explain the small axle. I'll check that the teeth match up to the site, but I know I have a freewheel for sure. In which case, I attribute the confusion to what I said earlier.

Thanks for your contribution Charles. That picture is awesome. Thanks for your tip on solid axles. I think I like QRs too much though. I'll definitely keep it in mind for future projects.

Now, I did find the right axle I need online and was ready to order it, but I remember I have a bike sitting around that could have the axle I need. To my luck, it did! It's a bike a use to ride and am in the process of taking any good parts off it and throwing away the frame. Anyway, I was able to salvage some bearings, a cassette with freehub, cones, locknuts, and the magical axle I need! As I was putting in the new axle, I found out I need more spacers! Boo! I guess these weren't the original hubs that go on this bike. It's like I said in my OP, if the axle was too small to begin with, the hubs probably are too. No big deal, I just need spacers. I checked a couple shops today in my immediate area, no one had the spacers I need. I wanted to get one spacer for each side (a 10mm and 20mm), but according to the last shop I went to, those are rare now. The first shop I went to only carried 1mm, and I opted out of those.

Is is better to have one spacer as opposed to several to fill a space?

I'm guessing yes, but probably isn't that big of deal in the end. Alas, The shop I'm going to tomorrow carries 5mm, and I'll have to go with that since no one carries 10s or 20s, and it doesn't seem worth it to order that small part. Currently, I have a 15mm and a 5mm in there, so a 5mm on each side isn't bad I guess. Better than a bunch of 1mm! I'll just have to look around to when I find those spacers.

So, hopefully, once I get the spacers tomorrow, I'll just pop those puppies in there, but the freewheel back on and I should be good to ride! Yes!

Thanks again everyone for your help. I'll post another update tomorrow...

Hey fietsbob, do you have a link to the wheels of boulder?

Thanks oldbobcat for your contribution.

Happy riding everyone...

fietsbob

'Wheels' products is probably distributed thru QBP.

bear in mind steel frames can be cold set,
welded,cast aluminum way less likely..

Remember the bike shop has a limited budget and clairvoyance,
if they don't anticipate your desires,
they can order stuff in the Distributor's inventory

Burton

Trying to identify part requirements over the Internet on a component that may not even be the original OEM wheel has gotta be like rolling the dice!

A complete axle assembly with bearing cups and grease shields is only about $15 at most LBS outlets. Why not bring the wheel over and at the same time have them confirm that there`s no damage to the hub cups.

You also have the option of converting to a solid axle instead of a QR installation and possibly a larger dia axle at the same time. Not something I`d want to do by trial and error. I`d much rather have the hub in front of me so I know whats going in is compatible.

epic.legacy

Hey everyone,
Just wanted to give you guys that update I promised (cutting it close to then end of the day, but alas...). I went and got the spacers, 3 bucks a pop, even though the guy told me 2 yesterday, buy anyway. I realize now I probably could've gone to the hardware store and found something cheaper. Oh well. Put those puppies on the axle and I'm good to go! Finally riding my bike with a wheel that has an axle that will rest in the dropouts! Everything looks good right now, the wheel is finally center, which is amazing! No more rubbing on the chainstays ever! I know it's a small thing, but I'm super excited that I was able to get this down with help from you guys so thanks again for all the help!

Burton, I'm not sure what you're getting at. I'm sure you're right about getting a hub, but I don't have the money nor have I learned how to build a wheel yet from a hub. I figured my best bet was to find a long enough axle and fill the gaps with spacers. I mean, that's the beauty about bikes, right? Even a hub might be too small, you can probably make it fit with spacers, swapping parts, etc. I do know that there is no damage to the cups. I'm confident enough to know that. Could you maybe explain?

Anyway, thanks again everyone for all your help...