das Ben Gator

Hi,
I have a shimano 6600 sl rear derailleur that is noisy as heck. If you turn the crank, you can hear a kind of rumbling noise. Upon a closer look, I see that the chain isn't falling into place as it should with the teeth on the lower small sprocket. I've replaced the BB, have taken the chain off the crank, and conclude there is something going on with the rear derailleur. It shifts well so I don't think it is the adjustment. It is new, as with the chain and the crankset, and the frame. It has about 400 miles of use and it made the noise since installed. I'm not sure what it could be. Any tips or ideas on how to fix this? Is it really a problem that can damage anything?
Thanks!

FBinNY 

Are you the one who installed the chain or RD?

If so, take a careful look at the chain's path between the RD pulleys. It should be a straight line passing INSIDE the tab running across the back of the cage. It's a common error to accidentally pass the chain around the back of the tab. It's so common that any mechanic who says he never did this is probably a liar.

After confirming that the chain is routed correctly, come back and post and we'll scratch our collective heads looking for other causes.

Homebrew01

I never did that

Kimmo

Yeah, me neither <_<

Hendo252 

But I had a friend that did...

FBinNY 

Meanwhile the OP hasn't come clean.

linus

Me neither but I wonder what happened to the OP.

FBinNY 

You're all a bunch of liars,(or haven't threaded enough chains). It isn't a question of whether the chain routed itself outside the guide, but how long it took you to notice and correct it.

das Ben Gator

Hi everyone,
Been rather busy with work and couldn't respond fast enough.

FBinNY, thanks for the advice. I looked at it and couldn't see anything in particular (it's a 5600 cassette, btw). I wasn't sure what you meant so I took pictures. But now I realize what you meant. So I'll post some pictures later, although it looks aligned as you say.

I am the one who installed it all and looked up youtube videos last night just to make sure I had done it right. It then hit me that maybe the spacer was/wasn't there and it could be part of the noise, especially as the chain seemed to skip a little on the cassette.

I removed the cassette a while ago to see about the spacer and it's there; I re-installed the cassette without the spacer just to see what would happen. It still makes noise but it's a bit less and now you cannot see some of the hub splines. I have Williams System 30x wheels. If it's okay without the spacer I'll run it like that. However, I still get the noise from the little wheels in the derailleur, and it looks like the chain skips a bit if you turn the crank slowly.

What do you all think?

FBinNY 

OK, thanks for the photo. Your RD is threaded correctly (as best as I can tell) and in any case has the problematic tab lower down where it's virtually impossible to flock it up.

Before going farther lets deal with the cassette. Whether or not you need an extra spacer behind the cassette depends on the hub, but it's simple to determine what's right. The cassette needs to be wider than the freehub body so it overhangs slightly. This ensures that the lockring is bottoming on the cassette and not the end of the freehub body. (think threadless headset top caps). So go back and check that you have this set up correctly, because if the cassette isn't properly tightened, the loose sprockets will beat up the freehub body.

As to the noise, #1, recheck hanger alignment, focusing especially on front to back twist. Check that the pulleys spin free. And, I hate to say this because it sounds like I'm just trying to sell you chain lube, but oil that chain. The inner plates, and rollers are all rusting (unless the chain is made of that new space age rad steel), as are the worn areas of your cassette. What are you using for lube, battery acid?.

If you go to the site below, and send me your addrss I'll send you a free sample of Chain-L and if the hanger is straight, there's a good chance it'll solve the core issue.

das Ben Gator

Thanks, FBinNY. I checked the cassette and hub, and the spacer is indeed needed as it makes the cassette go past the hub body. Question: is the hub supposed to have play? It moves about 2-3 mm out.

I'm trying to figure out how to determine if the hanger is straight. The chain does not skip when pedaling backwards and it shifts well.

Yes, the flash makes the rust more obvious; I hadn't noticed it, though I use 3-in-1 oil to lube it. I'll try the chain-L.

Aside from these issues, I'm not sure what else to try besides a trip to the LBS.

Thanks so much FBinNY

Kimmo

I'm not sure what you mean by 'out' there, but that doesn't sound good to me. I think you might be better off getting it sorted by a pro unless you know someone who can give you some tips in person...

Or you could keep posting here, but it's a pretty painful rate of progress.

cny-bikeman

Could you please explain what you mean here? Is "lower small sprocket" the small front chainwheel or the lower derailleur pullley? Big difference in diagnosing the problem. Thanks.

Also, if it made the noise since new have you asked the shop that sold it to you for assistance?

FBinNY 

Not to shill my stuff, but I'm beginning to suspect that the main issue is rust and poor chain lube.

As to the unique problems of the 1st (smallest?) sprocket. I looked at the photo and it looks like the chain might be touching the lockring. I can't tell from the photo if you have an 11t sprocket, but if so, you need to use a smaller lockring than the standard one used for 12 or 13t.

Hub play is a concern. There's often some at the freehub body (depends on the brand) but there should be zero or near zero play of the hub itself, (check for play at the rim with the wheel mounted). If you can feel free play at the rim the hub needs adjusting, but unless the play is significant, I doubt it's related to the noise problem.

It's hard for even an experienced mechanic to eyeball a hanger and know it's straight, it's near impossible for a newbie. If you don't solve the noise issue with chain oil and a new lockring (if needed) gather up all your complaints and let a pro take care of them all at once.

BTW- if this is a fairly new bike, it should done for free as part of the post sale tune up (depends on how old the bike is)

das Ben Gator

Thanks Francis,
I got your message but I can't respond because I've not posted enough. So much for being a newbie. I took the wheel to a LBS and the mechanic did something to tighten the cassette/hub and it was so quick I couldn't even see what/how he did it.

Well, the bike is pretty new and only has about 450 miles--it's a 2012 Allez frame. I put it together back in December from parts I had been gathering. I'm going to start a build thread soon.

Interestingly, the mechanic told me to lube the bike (I suppose the chain). I've been using 3-in-1 and recently discovered by reading (aside from the coinciding experience) that such oil/oils are vegetable-based and gum up, attracting debris and making things worse. So, I'll give the chain-L a try as I need to get something on there. And being in Southern California, I ride at the beach sometimes and the oil apparently hasn't done its job.

Thanks mate!

@cny-bikeman: I meant the little sprockets in the derailleur, the pulleys

@kimmo: the hub hadn't seated well and was moving 1 mm out, but I have no idea what the LBS mechanic did to fix it; being at no charge and literally seconds long, I owe him some beer

IthaDan 

Does the noise happen in all gears, or just some of them? If some, which ones, the bigger cogs, or the smaller cogs?

How did you establish the length of the chain? Did you match it to the length of the chain it replaced?

Is this the stock cassette? Or have you changed it to one with a different gear spread? What kind of wheels do you have? I've had some lower end wheels with cartridge bearings where the axle halves would loosen and the freehub would have play side to side, but the wheel would remain tight on the bearings.

How about the b-bolt (the one that hits the "sharkfin" on the RD hanger)? Try giving that a half turn.

Edit: wait, is this resolved?

das Ben Gator

IthaDan,

Not really resolved--the LBS mechanic didn't hear anything (but the shop was noisy) and turning the pedals slowly (which he didnt') makes the problem more obvious that you can see how the chain doesn't align but slides into place (is this normal?). It happens in all gears but it rumbles more in the higher gears, especially the smallest one on the cassette. The LBS mechanic adjusted the derailleur. I put everything together: the cassette, chain, etc. I used the method in the Shimano manual and online sources of putting the chain on the large cogs on the cassette and crank.

As FBinNY says, it might be lubrication (?).

ultraman6970

In the picture clearly the chain is not lubbed??? Looks like has a lot oxidation. I would start putting some oil in the chain 1st.

wrk101

+1 That chain looks awful for a new bike with low miles.

FB: I am guilty of improper routing (1 time). You bet, it made quite a bit of noise.

cny-bikeman

It takes a gauge/tool at the bike shop to easily and accurately check hanger alignment. Once again, with most drive train issues that can't be traced to simple adjustment or cable friction one should always check alignment to eliminate that as a contributor to the problem.