bykemike 

I just picked up a 1984 Ciocc that is in very nice condition..a CL find. I have stripped off the existing Campy parts and am going to updated Shimano drivetrain, 2 x 10 if I can.

I could not remove the drive side of the Campy BB. I tried chemicals, heat, big tools etc. I backed off at the point I felt frame damage was going to be a possibility and the BB was in good shape so I have decided to run the vintage Campy BB.

Now I need to find a crankset that will fit it. I am looking on Ebay and the choices are square taper ISO or JIS. Well, what the heck does that mean and what do I have?

I have a number of vintage bikes but I can always get the BB off so this is new to me.

Oh, and if anyone has a crank I may be interested in let me know. Hoping for Duraace or Ultegra 50/39 or so.

Thanks

Mike

ultraman6970

Hi, did you check if the BB was english or italian? if the engraving says 36x24F or something with a 36 there is a big chance you had been trying to remove the cup to the wrong side and instead of losing the cup you are actually tightening it. Some ciocc's came with italian BB and other ones with english BB, since you are asking for the jis and iso difference there is a big chance that you did not know that you have English and italian threaded bottom brackets, french and others moving around too.

Put the bike cup pressed in a vice, and use the frame to pull that cup out, be sure on how that cup gets lose this time.

As for the jis and iso thing, the squared tapper axles come with an angle in the corners, the jis is the japanese spec and iso is the italian/english spec, the difference in the cut is just minimal and if you arent too anal you can get away putting a shimano (jis) squared tapper crankset w/o any problem, it will work. The issue just for you to know is that the crankset will sit off like 2 mm compared with the ISO campagnolo one, not saying you can't mix stuff because yes you can, is not the most appropriate thing to do? well is not because after like 300 years the tapper in the crankset will become deformed. so basically is your call.

Another detail, squared tapper cranksets are designed to work with specific ranges of BBs, if the BB is too long the chainline will be too off to work right, if too short the chainring arm or the chainring will hit the chain stay. So you have to find a crankset that came standard with a BB with the same lenght than the one you have right now in the bike.

Hope you can take the cup off the bike 1st.

Hope this helps you more.

bykemike 

This helps a lot and thanks.

I am in the same camp as you. I really should try and get that old BB out. I tried to do what I could (I don't have the correct tool) so then I took the bike to my local bike shop. Nice guys but I wasn't feeling they had any love for the vintage rides, the mechanic really didn't even know what it was.
I hung out and watched this, they took this huge Park tool that goes through the BBand has a T handle on it and turned the T handle until they couldn't move it and then put a 4 foot bar on the end of the T and cranked it until the handle on the Park tool bent.

At that point I took my frame and went home..I did tip the mechanic for trying. I'm thinking the cup may have Loctite on it in which case heat is mandatory.
I'm going to need to buy the right tool for catching the flat edge on the cup..any suggestions?

Mike

HillRider

The original question still stands; what type of bb threading is it, English or Italian? Apparently neither you nor the mechanic seem sure. A mechanic not aware of older Italian bikes may have assumed it's English threaded and spent his time tightening it.

bykemike 

I'll check tomorrow when I get to my shop. The mechanic tried both directions, and bent the handle in both directions. I keep thinking heat is going to be required on the fixed cup to get it to move.

There is almost no rust or corrosion on this bike, the inside of the BB looks very corrosion free as do any of the tubes I have looked down , the seat tube looks great inside as well.

More BB info tomorrow.

JohnDThompson 

You may need a shop-quality tool for this job:



This is the Campagnolo version of the tool; other companies, VAR, Hozan, etc. made functionally similar tools. As cartridge bottom brackets have become more popular, the demand for these tools has dropped off and many newer shops might not have one. Check the oldest, best-established shop or co-op in your area with grey-haired mechanics who might remember these things.

N.B. and do make sure you're turning it in the proper direction. A Ciöcc is almost certainly Italian thread, which means the fixed cup loosens counter-clockwise, unlike the currently more common English thread.

bykemike 

Thanks John. That looks like the tool they were using.

I'm going to try and find one on ebay

Thanks again

ultraman6970

The mechanic should have tell you what BB shell the bike has, the cups arent marked either?

You have one solution anyways, just dremel or use a saw blade and cut the cup from top to bottom. Just be careful of not cutting the threads...will take you a couple of days, BB cup steel is super hard.

Are you going to buy one? dude that tool is like 300 bucks... the frame sure dont worth a half of that.

bykemike 

This is a Campy BB marked "36 x 24F" from my reading this seems to be right hand thread. So looking at it from the drive side am I to assume it loosens by turning CCW?

Mike

ultraman6970

OK italian....

That cup has to unscrew backwards... you move/turn the tool from the front of the frame to the back of the frame.

I would use a vice for this.

Good luck.

fietsbob

maybe not , if the cup is seized on.

classic Italian thread is 36mm Rh Tread both sides. so rightie tightie Lefty Loosie.



JIS,. J for Japan .. ISO , I Is for International .. so the Italian cranks have an ISO taper .

HillRider

No, Italian bottom bracket threads are the far more common right-handed for both sides. Both cups loosen by turning counterclockwise looking at them from the same side as the cup is on.

ultraman6970

Backwards, what side are you talking about?

HillRider

Facing the cups from the same side of the bike, i.e. looking at the fixed cup from the drive side of the frame. My point is both cups are right hand threaded so you loosen them by turning in the direction almost every threaded item you deal with uses. "Backwards" to me implies a left-hand thread.

Kactus

Turn counter clockwise for Italian BB.