mconlonx

I'm not a person who would let that kind of thing bother me, so I say: just ride the wheel and chalk this up to experience. If you do another wheel, you will have learned from this experience. This is if the wheel was for personal use. Pretty much the only reason I would re-lace is if this was a wheel for someone else, especially a customer.

gkamieneski

Agree with the idea of using the "trash rim" in a double laceover. Don't think idea was "foolish" however, as I just threw out a 1/2 dozen or so rims from my racing days when we had to do this all the time. Todays rims are much better than the Open Pros and MA40s we used "back in the day".

CliffordK

That just sounds like a lot of unnecessary work. I'd pull all the spokes and start over from scratch before doing that.

Are there nipple washers on the wheel?

However, as many people have mentioned, if it isn't causing a problem, just leave it alone.

rpenmanparker 

It might seem that way, but to a novice, proper lacing of spokes is not trivial. Having a sure-fire recipe for getting it right and one that is mindless at that might be worth the double effort.

FBinNY 

It's still lacing twice. Since the OP laced the wheel in the first place, there's no reason he can't lace it fresh again, which would be faster. Or he can use the technique I outlined early on of tying pairs of spokes together at the crosses, then removing all the nipples. The ties will maintain the orientation of the spokes, so he can rotate the rim 2 holes, and connect fresh with minimum lost time.

However, the OP needs to decide how important the issue is. If the wheel is only laced, but not tightened he might prefer to do it right. OTOH if the wheel is finished and ready to ride, I can't imagine that it would be worth the effort to move the valve hole. I'd just ride it that way.

BTW- there might be a subtle advantage to riding it as is. New, perfect wheels somehow tend to find potholes or whatever and get beat up. OTOH anyone who's ever had a wheel with a minor issue and decides that they might as well ride it until it dies, and can't wait for the end, finds that Murphy's Law kicks in and the wheel just won't die.

berner

I'm not particularly obsessive but I'd likely re-lace the wheel just to learn to do it right. Then, the very thought doing another wheel at some point in the future will not be traumatic.

This past summer I built up a wheel to replace one with a bent rim. Never having done that before, I took several photos of the old wheel against a plain background and then printed out the images. They came out very clear and I was able to lace up a nice looking wheel with only a few false starts.

rpenmanparker 

Good job. But it doesn't have to be a so traumatic. As I said previously in this thread, Sheldon Brown's instructions are fool proof. And despite what one might think, you don't have to learn the right way by rote on the first try. It is acceptable to go back to the source for a refresher before every wheel build. Bye and bye it will be second nature. Here is the link to Sheldon's article: Wheelbuilding

Kopsis

Lacing takes so little time compared to tensioning and truing, that the tricks to avoid it are hardly worth the effort. Not to mention that OP could benefit from the added experience of going through the exercise again "from the top".

OP, there are simple step-by-step procedures that will guarantee perfect lacing if followed exactly. Pick the one you like, take your time, and follow it to the letter. Do not try to work backward from what you know the finished product should be. That takes way too many brain cells and allows you to make way too many mistakes. Following the correct process, a blind person could lace a wheel correctly on the first try (ok, they may not get the label on the hub aligned with the valve hole, but they could do the rest).

When the wheel is laced but before you start tensioning any spokes, tear it back down and repeat. After three or four repetitions, you'll have the process mastered and you'll probably find you can lace up the whole wheel in under 15 minutes.

Jicafold

That's just silly, and the local bike shop will think you are insane. And as for tearing it down and rebuilding it three or four times, its the Holidays and you should be spending this kind of extra time with your family. As was said before, just take it apart and follow Sheldon's foolproof instrctions.

Wheelbuilding

FBinNY 

The reality is that the OP knows how to lace a wheel, at least to an extent. So the only questions are

1- whether he should bother relacing
2- what's the fastest way.

Had he learned how pro's relace by proloading ALL the spokes, then lacing crossed pairs, he could relace this fastest by removing all the nipples and leaving the spokes in the hub then relacing normally. He can also do the same (basically, leaving all the spokes in the hub and lacing by whatever method he knows. Tne only issue, is that having all the spokes in place might distract or confuse him.

The one thing he shouldn't do (IMO) is remove the spokes from the hub. That creates the potential of mixing inside and outside spokes which can be an issue if he had passed the point of setting the elbows the first time (probably a bit more than halfway through the tightening process).


TO THE OP --- If you decide to relace the wheel, here's where you probably went wrong. After lacing all the spokes in the first phase, (or 1st two) he accidentally wound the hub the wrong way, so spokes that he planned as clockwise ended up counter clockwise, crossing back over the valve rather than away from it. (or vice versa). Then he locked that wind when he threaded the 1st crossing spoke.

So when you relace, stop and confirm the direction of wind (away from the valve, or back across it) before attaching the 1st crossing spoke and locking the pattern in. The right patterm will have that crossed pair in holes 1 and 3 to either side of the valve., with the crossed pair from the opposite flange in holes 2 and 4 on the same side.

rpenmanparker 

I've done this lots of different ways. No way is easier than transferring the hub and spokes from one rim to another with the rims taped together. I would rather do that twice than work with loose spokes once.

FBinNY 

To each his own.

desconhecido 

I was thinking the same thing. He loaded all the trailing spokes (probably) and then wound the hub in the wrong direction. If this is a rear wheel, not only is a cross at the valve hole, he's got his right side spokes on the wrong side of the flange. To fix this, unlace (but don't remove from the hub) the now trailing spokes, rotate the hub so that the leading spokes become trailing and then relace .

Both Sheldon Brown and Brandt describe slightly different methods but each describes loading the spokes in four sets. Probably one of these, or a similar method was being used and the first two sets of 8 or 9 spokes each were installed correctly. So, probably a rotatation and the re-lacing of the third and fourth spoke sets will solve the problem.

I agree that the wheel doesn't need to be relaced if the only problem is the cross at the valve. I don't know if having the pulling spokes on the wrong side of the flange is "wrong" enough to require fixing. It wouldn't be for me riding around Houston in the middle of the night where the roads are flat and the most a work is when outrunning the roaming dogs just to the north of downtown while their owners laugh and party and money is known to change hands.

FBinNY 

There's no right or wrong with having "pulling" spokes elbow in or out. It's a matter of opinion with the world split close to 50/50 on the issue. Most European and old school USA builders lace pulling spokes elbow out. Most US builders that started after JB.s book lace oulling pokes elbow in. Some people are very adamant that only one method is "right.

I lace pulling elbow out (old school US builder) because I believe it's marginally stronger, but don't consider it a big issue either way.

desconhecido 

Sounds good to me.

Since I've become interested in wheel building I've looked at a lot of wheels to see what people do and I've only seen one set that deviated from the norm. That set was some campy hubs laced to Ambrosia rims on a Bianchi bike. The trailing spokes on the right were elbows in. On the left, elbows out. I assumed it was done this way to make spoke insertion easier -- dividing the spokes into two sets rather than four. That is, drop in and lace half the spokes, flip, drop in the other half and lace. But now I know that pros insert all the spokes at once rather than in two or four sets so I don't readily see the advantage of identical lacing rather than mirror image.

Both front and rear on the Bianchi are identical rather than mirror image.

rpenmanparker 

What hasn't been discussed is the position of the hub label relative to the rim seam and valve hole. Some conscientious wheel builders put the main part of the hub label (if it has one) directly in line with a radius from the valve hole, some use the seam on the opposite side of the rim. If the label is lined up with one or the other rim markers, but the crossed spokes are at the valve hole, then just rotating the rim one or two spoke holes around the spokes won't do the job, at least not for the rigorous builder. Then the wheel will have to be completely broken down and rebuilt from scratch.

Jiggle

That's the only reason I wear a helmet and line up my tire labels with the valve stem.....

79pmooney

He can get those tubes I see on bike shop counters beside the register with two valves, one presta, one schraeder. (True, I have never seen the full tube, just the 8" or so around the the valves.) He would have to drill the existing valve hole out ot schraeder.

Ben

Jicafold

If you need this kind of assistance then you need to sit down before you hurt yourself and wear your helmet at all times. Are we seriously still discussing this? You put the spokes in the wheel and the gap is where the valve stem goes. I built my first wheel ever last week, a dished rear wheel mind you, and it came out great and I rode on it without issues. It's not rocket science. Build your wheel and move on to move important endevors.

rpenmanparker 

Clearly you have it all figured out. Not so the OP. See that is why we are here. To help folks who don't know how to do things. Not to tell them that they should. Maybe you didn't understand that so I am glad I can illuminate you.

I've been building wheels for 30+ years and can certainly lace one from scratch, Brown style or Brandt style, triplet style, crow's foot style, however you want it. But that doesn't mean that the rim-to-rim spoke transfer method isn't the easiest way to rebuild a wheel there is.

just4tehhalibut

When I were a lad one of the reasons given for not crossing spokes at the valve hole is that you need to instead be crossing spokes at the seam on the opposite side of the rim. Essentially the spokes would be pulling the seam together, making for a stronger wheel. Rim design and manufacture has changed a lot in recent decades but I'd still be factoring the rim and seam when deciding about relacing or not.

FBinNY 

The rim is under such tremendous compression at the joint (and everywhere) that all the king's horses couldn't pull it apart, regardless of how it's spoked.

BTW- open at the valve and closed at the joint only worked with 36h wheels (or 28h). 32h wheels are the same at the valve and opposite the valve so do you cross at the valve to keep the joint closed?

Al1943

I think it's way easier to pull all of the spokes out and start over. If a rear wheel make 2 stacks, for the left side and the right side.

FBinNY 

If the wheel had been tightened or the elbows otherwise set, then 4 stacks are needed. Right and left flange because of the difference in length, and head in/out because of th set of the elbow. If the error was discovered before the elbows were set, then only 2 stacks are needed.

In any case, I believe, that all things considered, the wheel can be relaced easily enough with all the spokes left in the hub or, if that's too confusing, only all the head out spokes removed. But I expect that the OP has already rebuilt the wheel one way or another and moved on.

Al1943

If the wheel hasn't been ridden, and I assumed that would be the case here, I wouldn't be worried about how the spokes crossed the hub flange. On a rebuild of a used wheel your 4 stacks would certainly make sense.