TugaDude

Bike looks to be in excellent shape, very clean with little wear.

Owner is waiting to see what I might offer. It has mainly Shimano 600 on it, including STI brifters and it is an 8 speed.

Color is British racing green.

Not much to go on at this time, but what do you all think?

BTW, it is my size.

Scooper

The 1200 is race/crit geometry (same as "R" models today) and was built with 753. It was available in stock sizes in 1cm increments, and also custom. A stock size frameset was $1,100.

If it's a complete bike with 600 components and in excellent condition, I'm guessing it's worth at least $800 - $1,000.

wrk101

Around here, local sale would be lower, more like $600 to $800. This time of year is a great time to start picking up deals on bikes, particularly high end bikes.

TugaDude

Thanks guys. Pretty much what I figured. This is my first, best chance to own a Waterford-built bike. I'm going to buy it next Tuesday. The owner is holding it for me.

Stan, the forks on this bike have a decal and a white pinstripe. Can't quite tell from the pics but it might say 531, would that be possible?

The bike has probably two small spots that need a touch-up. Probably the size of a grain of rice, but down to the steel. The components look great, little wear and the owner says they function perfectly. I can't wait, I'll post photos when I get it home, but for now, here's one.

bikingshearer 

Nice score.

unterhausen

I would make sure the joint between the seat stays and seat lug isn't cracking. It looks suspicious, but the seat post binder bolt is hiding it. The problem with a lot of these bikes is that the stays weren't attached too well, they drilled a hole in the wrong place, and they take a 27.4 seatpost, so everyone just puts a 27.2 in it and calls it good. Then the stays crack.

TugaDude

Thanks so much for the tip. I will make certain to scrutinize that area. I don't know whether the seatpost is original and the correct 27.4 or not. I assume a smaller post would work with a shim, right?

Anyways, thanks for the help. How prevalent was this issue? Was it something that happened the majority of the time, or just when people didn't treat the bike properly?

Thanks!

unterhausen

I have seen a cracked one in the wild, fixed another, and the wrench at the LBS had one fixed at Spectrum. I saw another that wasn't cracked. With those percentages, I would say it's pretty common.

Scooper

This photo is of a mid-nineties Waterford with the crack typical of someone using a 27.2mm seatpost instead of the 27.4mm seatpost. This picture was taken by Dave Wages before he repaired it (in this case, the owner wanted the stays replaced since he wanted Paragon dropouts installed).



This caution is contained in FAQ #20 on the Waterford website:

Scooper

The 1100 had a 531 frame. If it's a 1200, the frame is 753.

It is possible a 1200 has 531 fork blades.

TugaDude

Picked it up tonight. I'll post pics later this week when I'm back in town. Owner's girlfriend ruined the right hand Shimano 600 STI shifter/brifter. Bummer. Got it cheaper because of that. Gorgeous bike! Forks are, indeed 531. Paint is a 9 out of 10, just a few small nicks. No dents or dings. The 600 group is in pristine condition, no shoe rub on the cranks even.

Anyone have a right hand 600 brifter available? Or a set?

Stay tuned.....

Scooper

Awesome. You'll love it.

TugaDude

Stan, I don't really care if it is "all original" components because the Salsa stem already killed that. Do you think I should just go with a new set of Shimano 8 speed shifters that are currently available? Would function be better or at least as good?

Scooper

Since Waterfords were available just as framesets and customers decided what components they wanted, I'm all for putting on whatever components give you the best performance and functionality, and make you want to ride it.

If it were my frameset, I'd be looking for an alloy Campy Chorus or Record 8-speed, 9-speed, or 10-speed compact double group with Ergo shifters, but if you prefer Shimano I think 8-speed D-A or Ultegra would be great, especially since you've got 600 stuff on it already.

You're going to love that 753 frame regardless of what you put on it.

EDIT - We need pictures!

TugaDude

I have done exactly nothing to the bike as of yet. You'll notice some clear tape on the head tube. Not sure if that was to prevent cable rub or to hold the cables down in place. I won't remove until I can spend some time to do it carefully. Would this be a good application for a hairdryer?

The seat lug was the subject of comments in posts above. There are no cracks in the seat lug or the seat stays. There is some paint chipping and a scratch, probably caused by a wrench, which show up in the photos.

The cranks are in primo condition, yay! It appears that when the seller tried to straighten the right lever it broke off at the bolt. I am going to try to ease it out. There is a guy that advertises on Facebook that fixes shifters. Anybody know of him? I am going to get a quote from him.

I will work on it over the Christmas break and post more photos.

TugaDude

There are a couple of small paint chips as you can see on the frame. Should I contact Waterford for "real" touch-up paint, or would you say these are small enough to just go to the auto supply store and get touch-up paint there? I've had good results going that way.

Scooper

Waterford will sell you the touch-up paint for $50. I ordered it for a '94 Paramount I built up for a neighbor and think it's worth it, but you could probably get close enough from an auto supply store.

Did it have a 27.4 seatpost?

TugaDude

Did it have a 27.4 seatpost?


Yes, it had the correct seatpost. It is in nice shape too. No zig-zag marks at all. I felt inside the seat tube for burrs and there are none. I suspect that they reamed it out before letting it out of the plant. The workmanship is everything I've ever heard and more. I haven't ridden it yet, but can't wait to feel it on the road.

FastJake

+1

You already have a broken right shifter, so your drivetrain choices are wide open. Do what you want with it, but since you already have the (almost) complete 600 group and if it were my bike I would:

a) find a replacement 8-speed tri-color STI shifter
b) get some Ultegra/Dura Ace 9 speed shifters and get a new 9S chain/cassette to go with it. You'll essentially have a new drivetrain which should still play well with the 8S crankset and front derailer.

TugaDude

I have a newer Ultegra short cage RD. Would that be better functionally than the 600 that is on there and would the 600 handle the 9 speed cassette with no issues?

FastJake

Like most other parts, Shimano rear derailers are labeled "8-speed", "9-speed", etc, but really they haven't changed much at all in the last 20 years or so, except for some of the newest MTB RDs.

The 600 RD will handle a 9-speed cassette just fine. I would expect either RD to work equally well. The only issue you might run into is front shifting. The narrower 9S chain can "skate" between the two rings when you try to shift into the little ring, but this should never be an issue as long as you don't shift the front when standing up (which you should never do anyway.)

TugaDude

Thanks Jake. That's pretty much what I figured from reading the forum. I just have never gone from 8 speed to 9 speed in all the years that I've collected bikes.
I'm also liking your suggestion to go with newer Dura Ace or Ultegra brifters. There is a pair here locally that I might go for.