Cast your vote! High or Low Flange
09-04-15, 04:13 AM
#26
verktyg
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Low flange!
Low Flange for the era.
In the olden days low flange hubs were the standard for road bikes while high flange and uber high flange hubs were used on the track.
Coppi in 1949 on a Bianchi:
1936 Dukopp German track bike:
1960's high flange hubs were more popular in the peloton.
Eddy on a 1969 Peugeot PX-10 with high flange hubs:
By 1970 it was probably half and half.
Here's Eddy and Ocana in the TdF. Ocana was riding high flange and Eddy, low.
Around 1973 low flange hubs became re rigueur for the racing set.
At the other end of the bicycle spectrum, in the late 60's to the beginning of the bike boom, cheap low flange hubs were standard on entry level European imports. By around 1972 - 73, high flange hubs with quick releases were a sign of a good quality bike. they looked flashier!
There was a notion that high flange hubs provided more lateral rigidity than low flange hubs. That's why they were popular on track bikes plus many riders used high flange hubs in mountain stages with lots of hair pin turns on the descents.
On the other hand, 4 cross low flange hubs were considered by many to provide a smoother ride.
Most of my bikes have low flange hubs.
verktyg
Chas.
In the olden days low flange hubs were the standard for road bikes while high flange and uber high flange hubs were used on the track.
Coppi in 1949 on a Bianchi:
1936 Dukopp German track bike:
1960's high flange hubs were more popular in the peloton.
Eddy on a 1969 Peugeot PX-10 with high flange hubs:
By 1970 it was probably half and half.
Here's Eddy and Ocana in the TdF. Ocana was riding high flange and Eddy, low.
Around 1973 low flange hubs became re rigueur for the racing set.
At the other end of the bicycle spectrum, in the late 60's to the beginning of the bike boom, cheap low flange hubs were standard on entry level European imports. By around 1972 - 73, high flange hubs with quick releases were a sign of a good quality bike. they looked flashier!
There was a notion that high flange hubs provided more lateral rigidity than low flange hubs. That's why they were popular on track bikes plus many riders used high flange hubs in mountain stages with lots of hair pin turns on the descents.
On the other hand, 4 cross low flange hubs were considered by many to provide a smoother ride.
Most of my bikes have low flange hubs.
verktyg
Chas.
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
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Last edited by verktyg; 09-04-15 at 04:18 AM.
09-04-15, 04:50 AM
#27
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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However a high-flange hub is deceptive. At first glance it appears as if it should to provide wider lateral triangulation. It would with radial spokes. But with 3x or 4x the spokes emerge from the hub nearly tangential. The hub width determine how far the spoke head is from the axle but it doesn't affect the lateral triangulation. Rather, it determines how much thrust load the rear can provide to the rim while pedaling. So for most of us it really doesn't make much difference. Maybe high-flange is easier to string up.
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09-04-15, 04:55 AM
#28
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I like High Flange.
09-04-15, 05:30 AM
#29
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Appropriate? Or what would I do?
I think low flange is probably appropriate.
I would put high flange on, just because I think high flange hubs look classy and elegant.
I think low flange is probably appropriate.
I would put high flange on, just because I think high flange hubs look classy and elegant.
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09-04-15, 07:38 AM
#30
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High flange looks better and I like the way they ride. But......they need to be paired with shiny rims, spokes and brake parts. So the low flange are the ones for that build.
09-04-15, 08:03 AM
#31
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Low flange for that build. The fork is modernish, with a sloped crown, and I'm sure you will use side pull brakes. If you were using old centerpull Mafac racers, brooks type saddle and going for that look, then high flange.
When I bought my Trek it had the original 27 inch wheel up front, and a replacement 700C with an Alex rim in back. I didn't have the money to replace both, so when a set of Alex rimmed wheels came up on craigslist for $80 I jumped. Turned out to be from track bike. The rear flip flop wasn't of use, but the front was a high flange wheel, with a similar rim to my rear. It was a fairly light and strong wheel, especially compared to the stock wheel, and I noticed a difference in performance once I had new lighter tires on both wheels.
When I bought my Trek it had the original 27 inch wheel up front, and a replacement 700C with an Alex rim in back. I didn't have the money to replace both, so when a set of Alex rimmed wheels came up on craigslist for $80 I jumped. Turned out to be from track bike. The rear flip flop wasn't of use, but the front was a high flange wheel, with a similar rim to my rear. It was a fairly light and strong wheel, especially compared to the stock wheel, and I noticed a difference in performance once I had new lighter tires on both wheels.
09-04-15, 10:28 AM
#32
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As a very rough, designed-to-be-broken rule, I tend to associate high flange hubs with centerpull brake calipers and ornate lugs, making them a 1960s and 1970s phenomenon. I would argue that low flange hubs are appropriate for older and newer equipment, e.g. 1950s and 1980s bikes.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
09-04-15, 10:39 AM
#33
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An ever so slightly smoother ride with 4x is possible because the spokes are longer.
However a high-flange hub is deceptive. At first glance it appears as if it should to provide wider lateral triangulation. It would with radial spokes. But with 3x or 4x the spokes emerge from the hub nearly tangential. The hub width determine how far the spoke head is from the axle but it doesn't affect the lateral triangulation. Rather, it determines how much thrust load the rear can provide to the rim while pedaling. So for most of us it really doesn't make much difference. Maybe high-flange is easier to string up.
However a high-flange hub is deceptive. At first glance it appears as if it should to provide wider lateral triangulation. It would with radial spokes. But with 3x or 4x the spokes emerge from the hub nearly tangential. The hub width determine how far the spoke head is from the axle but it doesn't affect the lateral triangulation. Rather, it determines how much thrust load the rear can provide to the rim while pedaling. So for most of us it really doesn't make much difference. Maybe high-flange is easier to string up.
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09-04-15, 10:46 AM
#34
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I'd go with low flange on that bike.
09-04-15, 11:12 AM
#35
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Swing low. Sweet chariot.
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09-04-15, 11:52 AM
#36
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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Real or not, one searches around for a physical reason the cross pattern or gauge could make a difference. Thinner spokes have higher elasticity (which Brandt's says is real enough to make butted spokes have a longer fatigue life). And longer spokes (for the same thickness) would have an effective spring rate that is lower. He also says the rim deforms at the contact point. There are some point to be quibbled over in how he explains it all, and some things I wish he presented but didn't. (I can say I was able to follow his physics except when he was just too ambiguous.) One thing he doesn't say is how the cumulative effect could work out; if the pertinent values were embedded in his tables then I didn't catch them.
So I phrased my statement "An ever so slightly smoother ride with 4x is possible because the spokes are longer" on purpose. In the physical world, if you add enough zeros together you can in fact approach a value of 1, as long as they are sufficiently large zeros.
I'm pretty sure I could not feel the difference between different flange heights or cross patterns. I do believe I can feel the difference between 32 and 36 spoke wheels. I can definitely feel the difference between light and moderate wheel/tire combinations.
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09-04-15, 11:55 AM
#37
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@jimmuller, he did leave some stuff out, but my take is that those zeros are not sufficiently large. Furthermore, he pointed out that elasticity of spokes doesn't add discernible compliancy to a wheel.
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09-04-15, 11:58 AM
#38
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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@jimmuller, he did leave some stuff out, but my take is that those zeros are not sufficiently large. Furthermore, he pointed out that elasticity of spokes doesn't add discernible compliancy to a wheel.
That bike still needs low-flange hubs!
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09-04-15, 07:11 PM
#39
verktyg
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"Sheriff's Star" 40" High Flange..... 
verktyg
Chas.
verktyg
Chas.
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09-05-15, 10:40 AM
#40
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Excuse me for asking this question again. I asked peoples' opinion before, but it got buried in another thread.
What looks more appropriate? High or Low flange. This is a late 80s or early 90s frame. I am using Campy SR components which are older; early 80s. So, it will not pass any purist test. I am just not sure; the High flange are beautiful, but look kind of weird.
What do you think?
What looks more appropriate? High or Low flange. This is a late 80s or early 90s frame. I am using Campy SR components which are older; early 80s. So, it will not pass any purist test. I am just not sure; the High flange are beautiful, but look kind of weird.
What do you think?
Not being wishy-washy, not trying to be difficult. I like high flange rear, low flange front..
High for power transmission, low for shock absorbsion and weight. BITD I was trying to be fast. Now I just want to look fast. (the only time I look fast is when I'm standing next to my bike).
Cheers, Eric
09-05-15, 02:38 PM
#41
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
09-05-15, 05:43 PM
#42
feros ferio
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True. Light tires and rims make for a responsive ride with great acceleration. This is the primary reason I am not sold on reduced spoke count wheels, which require a heavier, stronger rim to compensate for the loss of spoke bracing strength.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
09-06-15, 07:15 AM
#44
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09-06-15, 08:45 PM
#46
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