noobinsf 

You can't just leave it without the fixing bolt - it will fail quickly by falling out. (A forum member recently posted that riding without the fixing bolt is a surefire way of removing pins - but you risk damage and injury.)

You'll need more penetrating oil - it needs time to work into the contact area. You don't need to immerse it, but you should let it pool if you can so it can sit and work itself down.

Replacements of varying quality can be bought on ebay, but I got mine through Bikesmith. His website has a good explanation of how they're made and the levels of quality, and also counsels you to take careful note of the diameter (8mm vs 9mm vs 9.5mm). Even if it's damaged, save the old pin for reference, as you'll need to closely match the taper (though making sure the new pins match each other is more important than making them exactly match the old taper).

This is probably feeling a bit tedious, but it's really satisfying when you get it right...

Bikesmith page here: Bicycle Crank Cotters

noobinsf 

I just watched the video by Bikeman4u that you posted above, and he was incredibly lucky with that particular crank. I've never had one slip out that easily before. You'll be surprised at the amount of force it takes to dislodge one of these things. My right shoulder and back were a little tight the day after I got this one out (cotters in upper left of pic), and I considered these to be pretty easy:



But again, it was satisfying:

luckydud13

You're absolutely right. I didn't realize that after banging on it with a hammer (had the bolt on) there was even a chance it would ever come out. Even if true, that's the wrong mentality to have.

That site looks great, and just in case I found one that should work on Ebay. I would have just hated to sweat, swear and then be disappointed when no replacement could be found.

I think today is arm and shoulder day at the gym, I'm just going to back to the shop instead 😏.

ryansu

It appears your bike would use the "adaptor claw" type of rear derailleur one that aligns with the drop out rather than screwing into a dedicated derailleur hanger, pretty standard on entry and mid level 10 speeds of that era, I would suggest find a local bike co-op that sells used parts or what I do with some of my builds is use the SunRace RD M10, not too expensive on Amazon, looks the vintage part and its brand new, I reuse the vintage/original parts when ever I can but sometimes you just need something new to get it all working. Someone may have already mentioned this but if you go to Sheldon Brown site he has a nice article on chain sizing that I have found helpful and lots of other great info too. Good luck with the build and have fun! Love seeing old steel get new life.

ryansu

I literally destroyed a crank on one of my early rebuilds attempting to remove the cotters -after that I forked over the cash for a bikesmith cotter press, it wasn't cheap but I like rebuilding old bikes and it has more than paid for itself and its never failed to remove a cotter in the 10 or so times I have used it. If you can find a shop that works on old bikes it can sometimes pay to have them do it just to avoid the aggravation lol but yes it can be a good workout

3alarmer 

.
...just an additional heads up: When you get to the part where you're reassembling the cranks, you often need to file the tapers on the cotters you buy to something similar to the taper on the old ones, so save at least one of them, and match the new ones accordingly.

Also, you press them in, don't try to pull them in using the fixing nuts or you will strip the threads before they are properly seated.

noobinsf 

Just make sure you're supporting the crank arm when you go at it with the hammer -- this will help avoid transferring the force to the bottom bracket, which can cause some damage.

If I may, I'd suggest spending more time looking at those videos by RJ the Bike Guy -- I learned a lot from his concise, good quality videos, and I managed to do every bit of work on my recent (and first) restoration myself. Just as one of the great headaches is removing crank cotters (probably the hardest thing you'll tackle on this bike), one of the great joys is learning how much there is to learn about each component. Take your time. There is a lot of great information on these forums, too, which you can search using google. (Don't use this site's search function -- you'll often be disappointed.) And if it isn't obvious by now, we like to help, and we like to answer questions. Most of the regular posters on this site have decades more experience than I do...

luckydud13

Big update:

*Firstly, excuse my pictures. I troubleshooted for about 20 minutes and could not figure out how to get anything else aside from thumbnails. If anyone knows what on earth I need to do, or which website has a forum share link for photos let me know*



This might be a little picture heavy, only because I think for the first time I can actually provide something to this website if anyone references this later. I am happy to announce that I have the bike completely stripped to the frame. Going to sandblast this bad boy this Saturday, which leaves me plenty of time to polish and order parts. First and foremost, new cranks....But here's a picture of the frame as it sits.



After watching what had to be hours of videos last night, I woke up today with a vengeance. It also helped that I figured out how I could get the crank out easily. I think my difficulty all along was that I wasn't supporting the bottom of the crank arm while I was messing with it (shout out to noobinsf, for that suggestion and the replacements online). So, because I don't have a proper bike workshop and had to deal with the pie plate getting in the way, I took a 2x4, drilled out a hole where the crank would invitably come out, and another one near the curvature of the pedal, so all the weight was able to rest on the flat part of the pedal, and zip tied it to the crank arm. Then, I simply set the frame on the wooden block, and clamped the bike itself to the support beam I had near by. From there I was able to use a long piece of steel and a hand-sledge, as well as a tie-rod separator (who said car and bike tools aren't interchangeable?) to finesse the crank out. Naturally the other side was incredibly easy, go figure.





Following that, I reassembled the derailleur after its nighttime Kerosene bath, and this baby looks prime. Got all the muck cleaned out, and honestly its like night and day. The rubber internal wheels would barely spin, now they're great. Hopefully this will alleviate the need to buy a new one. Also, since a few people have been mentioning the adapter claw, I believe I already have one. I simply left it out of the picture because I realize it was still attached to the frame of the bike. But if not, someone suggested a cheap one on Amazon I'd be happy to use in its place, but I want to try to use this first.



And finally, I removed the fork and all of those components simply once I realize how they were attached. One question though, this piece pictured came out when I disassembled everything and I did not have the opportunity to see where it went. Does anyone happen to know? I'm assuming that the pressure I needed to put on the quill stem may have dislodged this? I see the ridges in the side of the top of the fork, but I couldn't find any conical expander nut or anything that made sense. Anyone have any insight?




Thanks for all the help, I absolutely would not have gotten this far without it. I have a very small surprise I'm thinking I'll do after painting, so stay tuned.

noobinsf 

Great work so far! One thing -- you'll want to remove the headset cups before sandblasting, otherwise they're likely to suffer damage, and you'd need to replace the headset. You can either make tools (I did not, but I know there are videos covering this) or use a tool at a local bike co-op. This is one where it makes sense to use the right tool (either homemade or borrowed) because the fit and quality of the headset can significantly affect ride quality.

jeirvine 

Great to see progress.

Re upgrading cranks: Measure the width of the bottom bracket shell (on the frame) to determine if it is the proprietary Raleigh - 71 or 76 mm - or a more standard 68 mm. I have upgraded the cranks on old Raleighs by re-using the BB cups (which had the proprietary Raleigh 26 tpi threading), and fining a square taper BB spindle in the co-op drawer that matched the old spindle bearing race width. Then you have a wide variety of square-taper aluminum cranks to choose from. If it is 68mm, then the BB cups are also probably British standard threading - 1.370" X 24 tpi. In that case you can use whatever 68mm BB you like.

Info on Raleigh threading:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.html

luckydud13

Assuming I have my terminology correct (which I very well may not), I don't think I play on replacing the crank itself (although I did determine it is the 'Raleigh' type threading from that article, thank you). The cranks themselves look fine, I really just needed to remove them to do maintenance on the crank shaft. What I do have to replace is the cotters, which I am in the process of doing. I forgot who it was, but someone recommended this site: Bicycle Crank Cotters. I just emailed him confirming something, and then I'll be ordering.

luckydud13

Just took care of this today! I took the advice of RJ and made a homemade tool out of a conduit pipe, it worked like a charm! Do you know if that was natural corrosion that caused those to stay in, or simply friction, or do I need to use some sort of adhesive when I reattach them? Thanks to you, my frame is now (actually) completely ready haha.

pfaustus

"Do you know if that was natural corrosion that caused those to stay in, or simply friction, or do I need to use some sort of adhesive when I reattach them?"


Just friction. You'll need a press to get them back in, which is just some allthread, big washers, and a couple nuts. The really old school way would be to tap them back in with a hammer and a block of wood, but that is too likely to result in a wrecked headset or frame.

luckydud13

That's so simple I think even I can do it haha. I should have everything I need in the shop already. I have a steady hand and a soft rubber mallet if it comes to it, but I'm not worried.

Lascauxcaveman 

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Lascauxcaveman 

I've only done this operation 5 or 6 times, but that's how I did it each time. Haven't injured a headtube collar or headset seat yet. It does help to prep the collar with liberal sanding and de-burring plus grease before you pound that sucker in. IMHO, that's all it really takes. The technical term is "interference fit," and the idea is to reduce the interference to a reasonable level before you bang it all together.

But what do I know? I worked out my stuck cotters by backing off the nuts a turn, squirting them with PB Blaster and riding the bike about a mile. Injury or death may result.

jeirvine 

Yup. I did that for maybe a dozen builds, and it works ok. Though once I did get a proper (Nashbar) headset press, it was like having sex for the first time. OMG. So good.

noobinsf 

Where you choose to daredevil is your own business -- I'm just trying to keep the lad safe.

luckydud13

Man, if I had know that was even an option I probably wouldn't have done it any other way hahaha.