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Old 09-22-07, 03:46 PM   #1
bigwoo
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Is '54 Schwinn A Reasonable Guess For This?

I am a glutten for punishment and couldn't resist this when I saw it. The track-style dropouts are kind of a sweet feature.

Believe it or not, the headset is still incredibly smooth

The serial # on the L rear dropout is "M470347"
Thoughts and comments on what it may be and build suggestions would be appreciated

(I'm thinking a high-gloss, gun metal black enamel would knock em' dead, accompanied by brilliant white accents and fire engine red pinstripes)


http://


http://


http://

http://

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Old 09-22-07, 04:18 PM   #2
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Based on the front chainwheel, it looks like a Huffy to me!
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Old 09-22-07, 04:33 PM   #3
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Based on the front chainwheel, it looks like a Huffy to me!
Interesting! I was taking a guess that the handlebar grips may be original, and they are the old tire-rubber grips stamped "Schwinn". But, somebody could have replaced the original grips at some point.

I thought that the serial # was very likely Schwinn, but Huffy could have stamped theirs back there too eh....??

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Old 09-22-07, 05:59 PM   #4
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If its a Schwinn the rear facing rear drop out indicate it is pre-WW2. They were not used after the war. Roger
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Old 09-22-07, 06:28 PM   #5
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It's not a Schwinn (I couldn't tell you what it is), but I like it. Especially the wishbone seat stay treatment. Your paint scheme ideas sound great ...

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Old 09-23-07, 07:50 AM   #6
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Actually I had a Monark with the rear wishbone like that. Roger
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Old 09-23-07, 10:35 AM   #7
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Thanks for the compliments and suggestions on what it may be guys,

I guess I'm going to have to hope that we have a ballooner expert in our group.

I do have 3 more questions:
Were MARK 60 hubs specific to any particular makes?? Could this MARK 60 have any relation to the old steering wheel rotator contactors on the first automobiles??
And, do we have any Patent experts in the house??

I was able to gently scrub some of the corrosion away on the front hub and found that it is stamped "MARK 60 MADE IN USA PAT NO 313100C"

I guess this is a toughie for me because I can see similarities between many bikes from the 30's up to the early 50's, at which point they really seem to diverge from each other. I sure do wish that the original fenders and head badge were still there. I'll bet the head badge was sweet



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Old 09-23-07, 06:44 PM   #8
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I'm pretty sure it is a pre-war (due to the rear-facing drops) Columbia. The rear stay treatment screams Westfield Manufacturing, as does the single chainstay-to-BB joint, BB cup dustcaps, headset, headtube badge rivets, and fork crown.

Oh, and Columbias were poster childs for bent Ashtabula cranksets, as yours indeed exhibits.

Chainwheel is a '70s replacement.

-Kurt
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Old 09-23-07, 09:48 PM   #9
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Excel Mark 60 hub. Patented 1964. Patent number 3131008.

http://tinyurl.com/226mq4 (you may need to add a browser plug in to view the TIFF images)

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Old 09-24-07, 02:34 AM   #10
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People are generally lazy, I bet those cranks came with the Huffy chainweel. The frame does look very much like a 30's columbia though.,,,,BD
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Old 09-24-07, 05:33 AM   #11
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I'd build it as a Klunker, in homage to the early MTB pioneers. But that's just me.
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Old 09-24-07, 07:09 AM   #12
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People are generally lazy, I bet those cranks came with the Huffy chainweel. The frame does look very much like a 30's columbia though.,,,,BD
Doubt it - I'd put a bet to it that the ring was replaced and the original crankarms retained. Note that the drive-side bearing race dustcap is not present - a sure sign of the replacement (the drive-side dustcaps made it a bear to remove and install the lockring/raceway for the chainwheel).

Also, even though Huffys do have their reputation, I'd be much more surprised to see a Huffy with a bent crankarm then a Columbia. I've had experience with 7 Columbia cranksets (5 + 1 tandem someone made from a pair), and not a single crankset of the lot wasn't bent.

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Old 09-24-07, 08:20 AM   #13
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Thanks for all of the suggestions folks

Kurt, I was thinking that you've got a good eye and nailed it and that over the years, somebody just kept replacing parts as they wore out. (I don't know the story of this bike because the guy selling it was just going to take it to the scrap heap)

This other gentleman with a stable of them sent me some photos of a 1931-3 and it appears to be an exact match of the frame/fork and handle bars anyways: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=001

Thanks for the help

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Old 09-24-07, 08:49 AM   #14
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Thanks for all of the suggestions folks

Kurt, I was thinking that you've got a good eye and nailed it and that over the years, somebody just kept replacing parts as they wore out. (I don't know the story of this bike because the guy selling it was just going to take it to the scrap heap)

This other gentleman with a stable of them sent me some photos of a 1931-3 and it appears to be an exact match of the frame/fork and handle bars anyways: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=001

Thanks for the help
Actually, I believe there's a bit more searching to do - it IS a Columbia, but the auction isn't a direct match for it - note the straight downtube and the absence of that small kink in the curvature of the rear stay. Funny thing, my '80s Columbia-made Western Flyer reproduction has that same small kink.

Take care,

-Kurt
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Old 09-24-07, 02:36 PM   #15
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Absolutely not 30s. Possibly 40s. Most likely 50s.

Ive seen a mid fifties monark like that. Not to be confused with the frame the super cruisers had.

Closest is the western flyer repo but with rear facing dropouts. Oddly I don't think Ive acutally seen a vintage western flyer that actually looks like the repo.

Looks like it was made by columbia with the exception of the place where the kickstand goes.On the columbia badged bikes this was a tube.

Anyway 50s columbia or huffy based monark is my guess.
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Old 09-24-07, 06:43 PM   #16
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Here ya go.

http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/448.htm
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Old 09-24-07, 06:45 PM   #17
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My 55 Columbia has that exact same open bottom where the kickstand bolts on. It has the exact same forks. Rear facing dropouts were not on Columbia's by the time mine was made, and possibly back as
far as early 50's. The serial number would help a lot? Left dropout I believe? If not, on the right. I forgot to look at mine that closely Rear facing dropouts say it's older. No telling how old without a s/n though.,,,,BD
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Old 09-24-07, 09:26 PM   #18
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The serial number would help a lot? Left dropout I believe? If not, on the right. Rear facing dropouts say it's older. No telling how old without a s/n though.,,,,BD

Thanks, The serial # on the L rear dropout is "M470347"

And thank you meatwad, that sure does look like a match. I never realized that many of the ballooners were very similar with only subtle differences
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Old 09-25-07, 06:16 AM   #19
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1949 model, probably a "standard" which meant no rack or tank, very much like mine. Yes that pic was a slight match, but that doesn't mean that is the bike was unfortunately. Columbia made a a LOT of bikes and like Murray or Huffy, they also made them for others too.,,,,BD

The clearer picture. Different forks?

http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/447.htm

HEre's a 48 model with a different kickstand mount, and different dropouts they make a point of showing. I don't
think they would have gone back to rear facing. That still makes me think it's older. The serial number is a possibility
for 1963, but they had moved on to another frame style I believe.

http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/742.htm
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Old 09-25-07, 07:40 PM   #20
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I'd build it as a Klunker, in homage to the early MTB pioneers. But that's just me.
Not just you.
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Old 09-25-07, 08:20 PM   #21
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That would look awesome, I agree.,,,,BD
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Old 09-26-07, 02:48 AM   #22
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<<Yes that pic was a slight match, but that doesn't mean that is the bike was unfortunately>>

Slight match ? More like exactly the same. There is not one thing different about his frame with the one I offered. What about that frame tells you that it is different than what he has?

Like I said its 50s columbia built. Any more specific than that is a matter of argueing what headbadge might have been stuck on a frame that might have been sitting around for a while.
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