Show Your Holdsworth Here!
03-11-16, 08:20 PM
#226
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Hi there,
Amulinder thanks for info. I'll continue my 2p worth.
Between years '62 to '64, according to Kilgariff, the Holdsworthy factory frames restarted their numbering systems. The Lightweight Cycle Catalogues Vol 1 states something similar for the Holdsworthy Clauds. The Holdsworthy factory resumed it's prior sequencing again by '65. (I have a definite Apr '65 Typhoon # 29953) Thus, factory serial numbers are confusingly low for the period (62-64) and are all no longer than 4 digits. For example Kilgariff sites a factory Holdsworth frame # 604 purchased in '63. OUR OWN "rhm" has a Claud Olympic Sprint #1492 which appears to be a '63 or '64 frame. See retroride.blogspot.ca/2007/05/holdsworth-italia_1672.html Numbers in the period '61 to '64 are confusing!
The Holdsworthy Claud Butler, Freddie Grubb and Maclean frames all had separate new numbering sequences which were started on takeover dates (58, 52 and 65). From Kilgariff.com re Freddie Grub , "Holdsworth re-started the frame number system. Again it was a simple serial number, without embedded codes, presumably starting at '1'. This system ran until 1976. Until 1976 Holdsworthy did keep separate number systems for thier Holdsworth, Grubb, Claud Butler & MacLean marques."
I think there is some evidence for Holdsworth labelled frames being built outside the factory in smaller shops. Certainly the Putney shop is one. Similarly I have a '68 CB Super Torino originally purchased at George Stratton's shop which had been a Claud Butler outlet. Bill Gray, former CB foreman, had a frame shop behind and there is some thought he may have built the frame. Perhaps others have more knowledge of this sort of "farming out".
In 1975 Roy Thame owner/manager of the WF Holdsworth Putney shop was told to no longer label his frames as Holdsworth, Not sure if Thame continued with the same separate numbering system which he began in 1965 and beginning with year of build.
Shortly after Holdsworthy move in 1976 to the new larger factory on Oakfield Road the Grubb and MacLean frames were no longer continued and the Holdsworth and Claud Frame numbering systems were amalgamated into a single sequential six digit sequential system always beginning with 0 and presumably starting with 000001. The highest number I have seen of this system is a c.1985 CB Majestic Mixte # 064865. I have seen personal stories of the factory continuing to produce "special" work for customers during these years. This numbering system ended with the take over by Marlboro in 1985
All of this info I have scoured from the internet; Kilgariff's writings, this and other forums and sites as classic lightweights. I have no amount of personal first hand knowledge. Although clearer with time there are "Holdsworth" frames that just have a number that doesn't add up.
Amulinder thanks for info. I'll continue my 2p worth.
Between years '62 to '64, according to Kilgariff, the Holdsworthy factory frames restarted their numbering systems. The Lightweight Cycle Catalogues Vol 1 states something similar for the Holdsworthy Clauds. The Holdsworthy factory resumed it's prior sequencing again by '65. (I have a definite Apr '65 Typhoon # 29953) Thus, factory serial numbers are confusingly low for the period (62-64) and are all no longer than 4 digits. For example Kilgariff sites a factory Holdsworth frame # 604 purchased in '63. OUR OWN "rhm" has a Claud Olympic Sprint #1492 which appears to be a '63 or '64 frame. See retroride.blogspot.ca/2007/05/holdsworth-italia_1672.html Numbers in the period '61 to '64 are confusing!
The Holdsworthy Claud Butler, Freddie Grubb and Maclean frames all had separate new numbering sequences which were started on takeover dates (58, 52 and 65). From Kilgariff.com re Freddie Grub , "Holdsworth re-started the frame number system. Again it was a simple serial number, without embedded codes, presumably starting at '1'. This system ran until 1976. Until 1976 Holdsworthy did keep separate number systems for thier Holdsworth, Grubb, Claud Butler & MacLean marques."
I think there is some evidence for Holdsworth labelled frames being built outside the factory in smaller shops. Certainly the Putney shop is one. Similarly I have a '68 CB Super Torino originally purchased at George Stratton's shop which had been a Claud Butler outlet. Bill Gray, former CB foreman, had a frame shop behind and there is some thought he may have built the frame. Perhaps others have more knowledge of this sort of "farming out".
In 1975 Roy Thame owner/manager of the WF Holdsworth Putney shop was told to no longer label his frames as Holdsworth, Not sure if Thame continued with the same separate numbering system which he began in 1965 and beginning with year of build.
Shortly after Holdsworthy move in 1976 to the new larger factory on Oakfield Road the Grubb and MacLean frames were no longer continued and the Holdsworth and Claud Frame numbering systems were amalgamated into a single sequential six digit sequential system always beginning with 0 and presumably starting with 000001. The highest number I have seen of this system is a c.1985 CB Majestic Mixte # 064865. I have seen personal stories of the factory continuing to produce "special" work for customers during these years. This numbering system ended with the take over by Marlboro in 1985
All of this info I have scoured from the internet; Kilgariff's writings, this and other forums and sites as classic lightweights. I have no amount of personal first hand knowledge. Although clearer with time there are "Holdsworth" frames that just have a number that doesn't add up.
Hoping for lots of comment here. "Shop" basically means custom built in the Putney shop down Lower Richmond Road. Factory is non-custom built models. The Putney shop didn't really start doing custom builds until 1958 when Reg Collard was asked to go work there for that purpose. Now this is where we get into serial numbers. The Holdsworth factory would issue the Putney shop with batches of frame numbers. Obviously custom built frames take longer to make than non-custom. It has been estimated that Reg Collard would build about 150 frames in a year. So in terms of dating frames by their serial numbers this has to be borne in mind. Holdsworth serial numbers are fairly straight forward and up until 1965-66 run sequentially. The earliest number I know of is 9017 in 1948. I've read on this forum in other threads that the earliest sequencing is in the 3000s and is from mid 1930s. The main difference that I can tell is that from 1965 the Putney shop began their own frame numbers and this lasted until 1975. In these years the shop started their frame numbers with first two digits signifying the year. On the Kilgariff website it says that from 1962 there was a new frame sequencing, but I haven't come across any evidence of this.
In terms of other makes using the same frame sequencing, will leave that to others more knowledgable, but with CB and FG that would have only been possible when Holdsworth bought out the brands. Possibly the Roy Thame branded frames in the 1970s would share the frame sequencing.
In terms of other makes using the same frame sequencing, will leave that to others more knowledgable, but with CB and FG that would have only been possible when Holdsworth bought out the brands. Possibly the Roy Thame branded frames in the 1970s would share the frame sequencing.
Last edited by allend; 03-11-16 at 09:10 PM.
03-12-16, 02:54 AM
#227
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I used to visit the Putney shop regularly in the years shortly up until its closure. Those labels look very familiar. So possibly labels from its later years.
03-12-16, 03:26 AM
#228
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Hi colisouth. Have seen the fork crown before on a 1954 Cyclone, not saying it is a Cyclone mind, it needs a closer look. Frame number also suggests a '53-'55 time range. Never seen that badge before though and it doesn't fit in with any info I have about badges of this period, but then an earlier badge could have been re-used for a new bike purchase? Is that possible?
03-12-16, 05:14 AM
#229
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A Roy Thame touring frame I got recently. Any ideas on where or by whom this was built? Serial number 221186.
03-12-16, 08:17 AM
#230
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non-fixie,
It will be helpful if someone with more knowledge of Roy Thame frames or a frame owner with knowledge of provedance and serial number chimes in. All I can say is your number 221186 does not fit into the Putney shop numbering system when Roy Thame was producing frames with the Holdsworth label and at least until he was told to cease by Holdsworthy Co in 1975. Thame did not actually build frames. Reg Collard was the specials frame builder at Putney shop until retirement in ~70 when Tommy Quick took over. There were other frame builders that built frames for stock. According to Classic Lightweights site and article on T J Quick by Bryan Clarke he built "special" frames for Putney shop until his retirement in 2000. (He sources info again from Kilgariff) T J Quick cycles So difficult to say if Quick was builder especially if it was a stock frame.
Frame to me has similarities to Holdsworthy (factory) Mistral touring frames of 1st half of 80's.
Again this is all info gleaned from cyberspace. Would be nice if someone with 1st hand knowledge chimed in.
It will be helpful if someone with more knowledge of Roy Thame frames or a frame owner with knowledge of provedance and serial number chimes in. All I can say is your number 221186 does not fit into the Putney shop numbering system when Roy Thame was producing frames with the Holdsworth label and at least until he was told to cease by Holdsworthy Co in 1975. Thame did not actually build frames. Reg Collard was the specials frame builder at Putney shop until retirement in ~70 when Tommy Quick took over. There were other frame builders that built frames for stock. According to Classic Lightweights site and article on T J Quick by Bryan Clarke he built "special" frames for Putney shop until his retirement in 2000. (He sources info again from Kilgariff) T J Quick cycles So difficult to say if Quick was builder especially if it was a stock frame.
Frame to me has similarities to Holdsworthy (factory) Mistral touring frames of 1st half of 80's.
Again this is all info gleaned from cyberspace. Would be nice if someone with 1st hand knowledge chimed in.
Last edited by allend; 03-12-16 at 08:57 AM.
03-13-16, 10:03 AM
#232
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Wow this is really great news! Whatever had been going on with Planet X and H Lloyd Cycles re Holdsworth decals is resolved!
03-13-16, 12:04 PM
#233
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Who owns a Cyclone? I just purchased a 1962 Cyclone (frame + forks). Will get some pics up this coming week. Really need to get my Super Mistral built first so this one is looking like a winter rebuild project. Can't wait!
03-13-16, 12:23 PM
#234
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Is this a Super Mistral Fastback? Only just noticed it and running out of time. If so looks a decent price.
Vintage Holdsworth Racing Bike Frame | eBay
Vintage Holdsworth Racing Bike Frame | eBay
03-13-16, 04:15 PM
#235
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non-fixie,
It will be helpful if someone with more knowledge of Roy Thame frames or a frame owner with knowledge of provedance and serial number chimes in. All I can say is your number 221186 does not fit into the Putney shop numbering system when Roy Thame was producing frames with the Holdsworth label and at least until he was told to cease by Holdsworthy Co in 1975. Thame did not actually build frames. Reg Collard was the specials frame builder at Putney shop until retirement in ~70 when Tommy Quick took over. There were other frame builders that built frames for stock. According to Classic Lightweights site and article on T J Quick by Bryan Clarke he built "special" frames for Putney shop until his retirement in 2000. (He sources info again from Kilgariff) T J Quick cycles So difficult to say if Quick was builder especially if it was a stock frame.
Frame to me has similarities to Holdsworthy (factory) Mistral touring frames of 1st half of 80's.
Again this is all info gleaned from cyberspace. Would be nice if someone with 1st hand knowledge chimed in.
It will be helpful if someone with more knowledge of Roy Thame frames or a frame owner with knowledge of provedance and serial number chimes in. All I can say is your number 221186 does not fit into the Putney shop numbering system when Roy Thame was producing frames with the Holdsworth label and at least until he was told to cease by Holdsworthy Co in 1975. Thame did not actually build frames. Reg Collard was the specials frame builder at Putney shop until retirement in ~70 when Tommy Quick took over. There were other frame builders that built frames for stock. According to Classic Lightweights site and article on T J Quick by Bryan Clarke he built "special" frames for Putney shop until his retirement in 2000. (He sources info again from Kilgariff) T J Quick cycles So difficult to say if Quick was builder especially if it was a stock frame.
Frame to me has similarities to Holdsworthy (factory) Mistral touring frames of 1st half of 80's.
Again this is all info gleaned from cyberspace. Would be nice if someone with 1st hand knowledge chimed in.
03-14-16, 06:03 AM
#236
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Got some photos of my 1962 Cyclone on my instagram account: LONDON_BENGAL
apologies for quality, how do people get photos onto a post? Just created a photo bucket account so looking at uploading photos to that and then hopefully can attach a url in future.
apologies for quality, how do people get photos onto a post? Just created a photo bucket account so looking at uploading photos to that and then hopefully can attach a url in future.
05-10-16, 07:38 PM
#237
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WRT Instagram: here's a thread on that, hope it helps: Instagram embed?
05-10-16, 09:49 PM
#238
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Cyclone
I recently finished assembling an early 60s Cyclone, using mostly early 60s Campagnolo Record components. I especially like the lug design on this model. It rides very nicely too.
05-11-16, 01:46 AM
#239
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Thanks non-fixed. Instagram info will be really helpful. Am riding the Super Mistral at Eroica Britannia in June. Photos of bike hopefully in a few weeks.
05-11-16, 01:47 AM
#240
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62 was last year for a top of the range Cyclone so pleased to own one.
05-12-16, 07:18 AM
#241
South Carolina Ed
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1. Suppose the Holdsworthymen have seen this excellent thread.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...fessional.html
2. Came across this for extreme cases
https://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Capace...s=sahoo+helmet
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...fessional.html
2. Came across this for extreme cases
https://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Capace...s=sahoo+helmet
06-14-16, 02:48 PM
#242
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Evening all. About 10 days ago I put a low low bid on a Holdsworth frame/fork, and accidentally won it. I won't get to see it in person for a while, but there are some interesting things on it. What do you experts think?
06-14-16, 06:42 PM
#243
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Hi there MiloFrance,
At first glance looks to me like a late 1965 Factory Mistral considering serial number, Prugnat I lugs and wrap over seat stays. However could it be a Putney shop build? Cable stops with skinny ring guides I've seen most often with shop builds. Although - by sometime in '65 the shop had switched to their own number system beginning with year of build. To help sort out need pics of rest of frame details. especially a better pic of seat post binder bolt area and of rivets in head badge. Hope the new acquisition arrives soon. Thanks for the sneak preview!
Doug
At first glance looks to me like a late 1965 Factory Mistral considering serial number, Prugnat I lugs and wrap over seat stays. However could it be a Putney shop build? Cable stops with skinny ring guides I've seen most often with shop builds. Although - by sometime in '65 the shop had switched to their own number system beginning with year of build. To help sort out need pics of rest of frame details. especially a better pic of seat post binder bolt area and of rivets in head badge. Hope the new acquisition arrives soon. Thanks for the sneak preview!
Doug
06-14-16, 10:36 PM
#244
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Thank you Doug. The rest of the story. The bid I won it on was £21. Apparently in the HT pic theres front end damage but I'm hoping its slight. The seller wouldn't post to France so it's winging its way to a specialist shop that does restorations, can change tubes if needed, and are very well respected. When they get it they'll give me an appraisal. Depending on their opinion, it's the bin or a respray or somewhere in between. Either way, depending on the cost of postage, It may come to me in France from there, but more likely will go to my sisters in Wales until I can pick it up. That will be the next opportunity for photos, so unless the shop is feeling very kind, I'll ask my sister to take some. Maybe the seller is on here somewhere?
06-15-16, 12:06 AM
#245
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Thank you Doug. The rest of the story. The bid I won it on was £21. Apparently in the HT pic theres front end damage but I'm hoping its slight. The seller wouldn't post to France so it's winging its way to a specialist shop that does restorations, can change tubes if needed, and are very well respected. When they get it they'll give me an appraisal. Depending on their opinion, it's the bin or a respray or somewhere in between. Either way, depending on the cost of postage, It may come to me in France from there, but more likely will go to my sisters in Wales until I can pick it up. That will be the next opportunity for photos, so unless the shop is feeling very kind, I'll ask my sister to take some. Maybe the seller is on here somewhere?
06-17-16, 08:34 AM
#246
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The news is not good. Over £300 for the repair without a respray. It's heading for the wall of a bike coop in Bristol I hope. 
06-17-16, 12:47 PM
#247
South Carolina Ed
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I love the lugs and livery, and feel your pain. Hang on to it an perhaps an opportunity to get it going inexpensively will appear.
06-18-16, 05:37 AM
#248
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Front impact is bad enough that the DT and TT need replacing. Also the fork is badly pitted between the remaining chrome, and not matched. Sad. MAkes me think I should get that Cyfac/castorama anyway
06-24-16, 12:11 AM
#249
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Just recently restored...70s Holdsworth Mistral frame set. Maiden voyage leaves tomorrow....
Holdsworthfini by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr
Holdsworthfini by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr
06-24-16, 12:32 AM
#250
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Here's some other photos of my Holdsworth Gemini that I got for my wife and I. I have made some adjustments since these pics for comfort and convenience for myself and my wife. But enjoy the photos....This was our anniversary present...the bar end plugs say it all.
album is here:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsk2RF98G
10670121_10205443791599285_8907406018211009556_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr
10622858_10205443787679187_41826008947478761_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr
10401987_10205443785519133_1118625957613826251_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr
10437458_10205443784279102_3336305572382242459_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr
10703585_10205443783239076_5641036773775838214_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr
532914_10205443779958994_1212362234121596019_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr
10811630_10205643649035596_70938082_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr
10814336_10205643643435456_296835405_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr
10808377_10205643638475332_1681885126_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr
album is here:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsk2RF98G
10670121_10205443791599285_8907406018211009556_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr10622858_10205443787679187_41826008947478761_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr10401987_10205443785519133_1118625957613826251_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr10437458_10205443784279102_3336305572382242459_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr10703585_10205443783239076_5641036773775838214_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr532914_10205443779958994_1212362234121596019_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr10811630_10205643649035596_70938082_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr10814336_10205643643435456_296835405_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr10808377_10205643638475332_1681885126_n by Walter Skrzypek, on Flickr