juls

A computer program to build a virtual bicycle from vintage parts? Would be more interesting to document those that you cannot find specs for.....creating a database on the coat tails of the late Sheldon Brown. Finding 'complete' bikes is all about luck already/finding the correct parts to make it complete is a hobby in itself.
Don't see this working unless it's a local project. Anyway, good luck with that.
PS- would that we could-we all don't ride Paramounts. hehehehe

bbattle

We are already armed with lots and lots of information about component compatibility and what we don't know, we find about by trial and error. Trying to dazzle us with jargon only you understand smells like you're trying to baffle us with BS.

The suggestion that you purchase bicycles for this project is a good one. Start your database off with a Schwinn Le Tour, Raleigh Gran Prix and Peugeot UO-8; all from 1975, and see what you get.

Mos6502

Dear Mr. MChristenson, your idea is one of the stupidest and most unworkable schemes I have heard of.

If you want to do it right, just buy the components you want to measure - measure them - and resell them.

Why would you want an ENTIRE BIKE just to take it apart and measure a few bits and pieces? First nobody is going to trust you, secondly the shipping costs will be outrageous, thirdly you'll not see any of that money returned to you. Stupid stupid stupid stupid.

Road Fan

Probably "historically relevant" is not to the point, especially since it seems MChristensen is not expressing himself very well, and by now, knows it. If I were doing this, I'd want to look at bikes of vintage construction, of good quality, and in good condition - many Italians, better Schwinns, nearly any UJB, classic steel in good condition. Good condition so that there are minimal problems while dismantling and re-mantling, and so the the parts look as they really do - not having to deal with any significant distorted features. Good quality because better bikes and parts are less likely to be damaged, they are easier to build. Vintage or vintage-style because the config's of these bikes are excellent representations of many bikes, and need only small variations to be expanded to modern bikes. Plus, minimal carbon to deal with, so less likely to be damaged, again.

Freebie bikes are likely to be rustbuckets, a major pain to deal with as we all know. Plus I'd want to be studying complete bikes, not partials or boxes of parts.

I can totally sympathize with concern about theft, unqualified monkeying with a prized collectible or just something I put hundreds of hours into. I would only send my Masi or Mondonico to someone I know is capable, careful, and trustworthy.

MChristenson

Good Morning,

It has occurred to me that in some restoration projects a bike must be taken down to the frame for repainting.

So, at this point the entire bike is in pieces.

If, by chance, such projects are being done within MI, WI, MN, or Northern IL there would be a chance to meet at a trusted dealer, sign my life away.... and so forth. Maybe we could just buy the bike at the estimated value, and do a handshake deal that it would be bought back if / when all is as agreed.

Again we are not looking for particular valuable models, interesting, and somewhat popular and respected.

The Bikes do not need to be in great shape but they do need to be complete and original.

This sounds like something that some shop in the Midwest might be doing fairly regularly.

The good thing this way would be that nothing would have to be taken apart or put back together at this stage.


Would that, perhaps, make some sense?


Michael

embankmentlb

Makes no sense to me. How is this different than say a website like Velobase?

cudak888 

Easy: One of them is legit.

If MChristenson's "plan" was genuine, he would have entered into a heated argument with one of the naysayers long ago.

-Kurt

MChristenson

Enbankmentlb,

There is no traditional (relational type) database involved in our scheme, but there is a document handler. The component information is generated into "documents" or text that is also executable code. The language we are using is very dynamic, and wonderfully "reflective" (so that one piece of code can query and get a response from any other piece of code) so pieces can be made to work together in ways I have never known in my 30 years of doing this stuff.

....more about this off_line if you are really interested.

Some of the worse confusion here, is that we are only looking to build out a "model" for this, we are not looking to build a comprehensive database at this stage of things.


Michael

beech333

I still have no idea of what you are trying to do. Therefore, I see no reason to offer up a bike.

If you are truly interested in following through with this, I would recommend moving on to another site/store. You are not likely to get any takers here. Most of us work on our own bikes, so there is no point in sending it out for that work to be done.

BlankCrows

After you have working software and have a number of example bikes and some compatible components to mix and match on them, then ask people to lend you their stuff. To get started and have bikes that are in original or nearly original condition, you and your colleagues should be foraging at garage sales, thrift stores, flea markets and on Craigslist (that's how we get them) until you have enough to set up enough working data for your software. After you are happy with the software then ask for help to expand your database.

I still don't know if your ultimate goal is to sell bike stuff or not. For now take the prices off of that web page. It confuses potential material lenders of what your purpose is for the software. If you want to sell stuff (or the software) in the future then add it in later.

MChristenson

Lots of good advice.

Thank you.

Velobase.com is much more interesting than I first recognized.


Michael

cudak888 

It is interesting in every respect. Please do not insult Jon's hard work.

-Kurt

Ivandarken

I have the foggiest... and I mean that literally... idea of what the OP is trying to do.

I think that he is at the earliest stages of his "next step" and sincerely did not realize what a hornets nest we can be to outsiders, when he posted.

I say we give him the benefit of the doubt, and the benefit of our experience. But for that to be any help, I suggest:

Michael... find a fairly smart person who is fairly knowledgeable about vintage road bikes...
Spend the afternoon with this person at a coffee shop (Not a bar, that would only make things worse)...
Explain what you are trying to do... you will probably have to do this several times. Be prepared for this fairly smart person to ask you a lot of questions you don't know the answers to....
Once this person understands you completely - bring that person to this forum to explain it to us...
Then we may be able to help you.

Good luck.

Ivandarken

Oh, and if we are all satisfied at the end of it... that PX-10 is all yours.

embankmentlb

Oh Ok! Why didn't you say that in the first place. Where do i send my bikes?

kpug505

I think I get it...Well maybe...What I think dude wants to do is create a database of component measurements so he can create programs that will tell a person if a combination of this, that or the other thingy will work on a given frame. Kind of like the Sutherlands manual perhaps? The good thing is that for the most part parts are pretty much standardized. You get into some funny stuff when dealing with bikes made before say about the mid 80's because of different threading.
If you want to just make a mock up type of program you need to make it easy on yourself so you can kinda guaranty what your outcomes will be. Pick 3 bikes that are very similar in component and threading specs that you know from experience stuff can get swapped around on. So I'd suggest 3 mid to late 80's bikes of Japanese manufacture. They all have the same thread, bottom bracket width, rear spacing and wheel size.
So find a Sutherlands, read Sheldon Browns database 5 times, pour over Velobase, get a couple mid 80's Japanese roadbikes and have at it...If you want access to lots of bikes in need of tear downs and you don't wanna pay perhaps you can volunteer at a bike co-op and rebuild bikes for kids or something...And please for the love of God get a bike guy involved. You need to get your nomenclature correct or nobody is gonna get on board except fellow tech geeks. We don't speak the same language bro...

If I understand correctly a website that I could go to and plug in a year and model of bike, pick components and have the thing tell me if it will work would be kind of cool. But honestly the only time I've ever run into problems is when trying to build up frames and my component group is ecclectic. Even then usually the only area of concern is finding the right bottom bracket so everything jives...

If you're trying to build this thing so bike shops or online retailers can have some sort of online "build your bike" thing...Don't waste your time. They know what fits and what doesn't. Any semi accomplished mechanic knows what works and what doesn't. When it comes to new bikes they are pretty much plug and play. Buy a frame, a complete component group, assemble and ride. Most people prefer complete groups so everything is coordinated and works properly. When in doubt Sutherlands or Sheldon have the answer and if that doesn't work the collective hive mind that is C&V certainly does...

My 2 cents...Hope it kinda makes sense.

MChristenson

"Funny" you should say that.


Yes, yes, and yes.

Michael

PS Funny you should mention hornets; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarm_intelligence

krems81 

I could see trusting a third party. I don't see how a trusted shop would cooperate in a theft scheme. But, who will pay for the shop to do the work, much less take exacting measurements that are more or less already known - bottom bracket shell = 68mm x 1.37, or x 35mm, or x 36mm, etc.

So, I could see it not being a scam, i just don't see where the money comes from and/or why?

Edit: the differences in road bike measurements for practical building purposes are minute. Things are pretty standard, and Velo Base is already a good catalog for uncommon or rare parts. Sheldon brown has a bb database for cranksets. Seems like this project might be best incorporated into something existing, like Velobase. If you have funding, why not funnel it towards greatly expanding Velo Base with the sort of data you want to see collected?

cudak888 

Shop saves the scammer the effort and tools required to disassemble the bikes down to the components.

The money comes from reselling the parts they have "collected."

-Kurt

embankmentlb

The money comes from the sale of our stolen bike parts.

krems81 

But if a trusted shop knows its your bike, and they know its being taken apart to be returned to you, how would they release these parts to the custody of the folks running this? I guess for the shop to cooperate, you'd have to release your bike to the scammer first, and they bring it to the shop.

krems81 

More than anything, i think the op is trying to use teambuilding jargon, data collection, and corporate streamlining methods to approach a problem that doesn't exist. When problems building bikes arise, they're outside the norm, and they're best solved hands on on a case by case basis.

USAZorro

Enough politics. There's a place for it, and it isn't C&V.

USAZorro

I think you are possibly correct here. I see almost zero commercial application for this - at least when it comes to truly vintage bicycles. Either the owner, or someone knowledgeable in a bike shop will know what can work. There are a number of rather expert hobbyists in that part of the country who could do about as much to educate the person undertaking this colossal headache. I'd direct him to John Barron, Scott Davis or Peter Naiman for some conversation.

Note, I work in IT, and I can't recall an instance where the jargon has been laid on so heavily, and the clear intent of the undertaking has been more obfuscated than the descriptions provided at the start of this thread. I understand there's some bicycle modeling database being attempted. Are we going to see a computer game where Coppi rides a 2003 Trek Madone fitted with Simplex retrofriction and races Lance on a 1973 PX-10 with C-record and Eddy Merckx on 1952 Bianchi with SRAM red components?

krems81 

Post deleted. I would have edited out the last line to make it less offensive.