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Indecent Proposal

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Old 11-28-09, 01:49 PM
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MChristenson
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Indecent Proposal

Hey Guys,

A couple of us are working on a new kind of website for bicycles.

I'll spare you'all the technical details but we are due to have our second demo version up on the web within a week or two. So you'll be able to see that and you'll understand our problem - which is we want more depth to the data on the parts for our project. For our next demo stage we are planning to switch from shallow data for some 7,000 parts to much more (and better organized) data for a few bikes.

!?The question for us is how to get started!?

Our best idea right now, I think, is to pick a few historical models of particular significance, take them apart ourselves, measure, weight, detail, document, photograph and then put them back together.... It could logically be part of the deal to clean and lubricate the parts before putting it back together.

There is this tricky issue of trust, that needs to be addressed so that the party lending his machine not only knows he will get it back, but also that it will be in equal or better shape.

I'm not sure what the answer to this issue is, but it seems to me that if you are in the mid-west, have a good dealer that we can trust, and have such a bike that we could possibly work something out with that dealer.

We really don't care to work with anything somebody feels is worth too many $thousands. I might be missing something, but it seems to me that "working bike" would be ideal - essentially you would get it back before spring totally cleaned, gone over, and lubricated at no cost to you. The model of bike should be "interesting" and appreciated as a collectors machine, likely also "popular", and recognized as a quality machine. (We love oddball bikes too, but this is not our goal for this project.) Also it will sure help us if the model is well documented, and that there is a maintenance manual available for it. I personally have a penchant for old Schwinns.... but I'm a programmer, not the Bike expert. Oh, and we are thinking Road Bikes to start with. The model being discussed the most is a Schwinn Paramount. The bike should also use well known, consistent, and documented component groups.

As I think about this, perhaps the best way to go will be to work directly with a dealer that has these models and would enjoy seeing the model featured on our website. Our website is going to be technical but sales is a part of the whole eventual package.

It would be great for us to work with somebody with multiple bikes, but one at a time, so we can work with just one dealer and not have to take too many risks ourselves. Also it would be best if this could be done somewhere in the Midwest in MN, WI, IL, or MI. Would somebody, perhaps, know of a dealer that would have such machines and likely to be interested in working with us?

This idea is still pretty new to us, but I'd sure like to get started on this project in not too many weeks, now that winter is upon us. The bicycles we'd work on will be guaranteed to be returned by spring - we are talking about 3 historical models at the most, significant new models will be considered, perhaps if they are brand new and still in the crate we could work with you to have it properly assembled by a quality mechanic?

Sincerely,


Michael
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Old 11-28-09, 02:52 PM
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I've read your post twice, and I think it has something to do with bikes and parts.
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Old 11-28-09, 03:00 PM
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I read it several times and think that they want you to lend them your significantly and historically important bicycles to be disassembled and put together better than you did it yourself. The target date is a week or two and you will get you bicycles back in the Spring - guaranteed! But first, you must qualify for this incredible service by suggesting a local bicycle dealer that these guys can trust.

Yup, Indecent proposal seems to be a great title for this thread.
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Old 11-28-09, 03:12 PM
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From his profile:
"MChristenson has not made any friends yet"
Not surprising. I get the feeling that anyone who partners with you in this "project" will never see his bicycle in one piece again - and if he does, it'll be on eBay that he sees it.

This "proposal" is indecent enough not to be touched with a 10 foot seattube.

-Kurt
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Old 11-28-09, 03:16 PM
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...has something to do with bikes and parts
Well, ya, hmmm. Its not that complex really..... in the simplest case we would just "rent" a historical bike, take it apart, document the components, and put it back together.

However, we are not expecting others to trust us any more than we would want to trust another party , and therefore the not so mind boogling complication of finding a trusted 3rd party.

It's just really not that complex..... and why we want to do this, that is another story.

We are proposing that we work with a trusted 3rd party. And hopefully it is a project you were going to do anyway.

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Old 11-28-09, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MChristenson View Post
It's just really not that complex..... and why we want to do this, that is another story.
Uh, er, a potential lender would want to know what that story is before making that loan.

Good luck getting volunteers for this project. I'll venture to guess not too many owners/collectors would loan their bikes out to be dismantled, regardless of the make and model. And also, the bikes would typically be in nice condition anyways and would not need to be overhauled.

Component weights aren't going to differ by bike unless the components are actually different versions, and most of those weights are listed over at velobase.com already, and maybe other places as well. The only significant differences you are going to register are going to be from different size frames -- some measurements and the weight will be slightly different.

If you are building a database, you will have more success if you ask current owners for certain specifications of their bikes/parts rather than requiring to obtain and hold onto their stuff for a while.

Oh, and where can we find the first demo version you had up on the web so we can check it out?

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Old 11-28-09, 03:31 PM
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instead of starting a completely new site why not contribute your time to expanding an existing site? Velobase for example. also why not make everyone a historian? get everyone to offer a model of bike they would volunteer to disassemble the bike and take all the measurements you like. chances are alot of these guys already know as much about they favorite frame then the builder did when he built it.

if I for example was disassembling one of my bikes to overhaul it and knew someone was looking for information on the frame demsions other than what the manufacturer supplied. things like the exact thickness of the dropout or the seat cluster to the housing stop support to the brake bridge I might be enclined to record it and send it off.
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Old 11-28-09, 03:39 PM
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Oh, and where can we find the first demo version you had up on the web so we can check it out?

http://buildmyworld.info/build/

this is 8 months old but still up and running....
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Old 11-28-09, 03:46 PM
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You ought to be prepared to pay anyone who joins in your little plan there, seeing that your site is specifically sales/profit oriented.

-Kurt
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Old 11-28-09, 03:49 PM
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So, you want to sell bikes? New, current product and/or older stuff? For new product you could get the data and inventory from the manufacturers. As for the older stuff, where are you going to get those items from?

Hmmmm, now this is starting to make sense.

Very indecent indeed.

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Old 11-28-09, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BlankCrows View Post
As for the older stuff, where are you going to get those items from?
"Can't find it cheap enough? Whine for it on Craigslist. Can't get it from Craigslist? Dupe folks into giving it to you."

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Old 11-28-09, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
I've read your post twice, and I think it has something to do with bikes and parts.
You did better reading it than me. I have read it four times at least. Something about trust me comes to mind.
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Old 11-28-09, 04:10 PM
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Renting an historic bike, somehow reminds me of the scene from the movie "A Clear and Present Danger" where Harrison Ford (Jack Ryan) attempts to rent a helicopter.

Unless you have access to Jack Ryan's checkbook, not sure how you are going to make this happen.

If you are serious, the best way is to buy the bikes one at a time, do whatever you want with them, and then resell them. Buy right, and you could breakeven on the purchases.
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Old 11-28-09, 04:11 PM
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A couple of us are working on a new kind of website for bicycles.
I'm working on Middle East peace, but no one seems to listen to my paving idea.....

I think it would work if you did your own bikes, sort of like the old Car & Driver projects, etc. I'm just not sure how much ad revenue you can expect.
A lot of us do this on a regular basis, because with the advent of the internet, we can now find parts, advice, photos, and each other.

Good luck. There's a guy in Raleigh who wants a bike when it's done.
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Old 11-28-09, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Something about "mistrust me" comes to mind.
Fixed.

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Old 11-28-09, 04:20 PM
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Renter agrees to pay $400 a day plus expenses & pay up front $3000 to be held in escrow until the bicycles safe return. If these terms are agreeable please sign & return this document along with payment promptly to insure your spot in the schedule.
Approved by:________________________________
date:_______________________________________
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Old 11-28-09, 04:27 PM
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Bianchi Girl,

Thanks, you are making me think. Our website will have a Project Orientation and Persistence between sessions so that a person can build a new machine from existing components and share it with a dealer for example. When things are not known "constrants" can be put on a "Department" to serve as clues to a dealer what client is looking for.

I have thought about this for restoration projects in t
he past. One reason we are doing this project first on the Bicycle domain is because I have been a life long cyclist and even purchased a Schwinn Le Tour this summer for a restoration project. Somehow this bike is not making it with the Bicycle expert as an ideal machine, he owns a Bianchi but I have no clue which model.

The thing is, right now, we are trying to design the "mold" for future Road Bike instances. For example we have some 20 + attributes for Rims. I'm not the Bicycle expert but typically even a good site will only give 3-4-5 attributes then "hide" only some of those missing attributes in the Description Fields (to computers / not to real experts). Note, we have no intention of taking away the description fields, we just want to gather the information for every one of those attributes possible - therefore the idea of using historical bikes.

BTW I live in Door County - NE Wisconsin where folks typically just trust each other a bit more. I had almost forgotten what it must be like "out there".
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Old 11-28-09, 04:29 PM
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So like you're in Nigeria right? And, your father was the vice grand pooba until the revolution, right? And, you want to "borrow" my 1950 Bianchi once used by Coppi in the 1949 Tour, right? FAGETTABOWTIT!!!
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Old 11-28-09, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MChristenson View Post
Our website will have a Project Orientation and Persistence between sessions so that a person can build a new machine from existing components and share it with a dealer for example. When things are not known "constrants" can be put on a "Departm[COLOR=Black]ent" to serve as clues to a dealer what client is looking for.
HUH?

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Old 11-28-09, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MChristenson View Post
http://buildmyworld.info/build/

this is 8 months old but still up and running....
Why is there terrible English on your site?

Our agents will evaluate state of your system and advice you.
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Old 11-28-09, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
Why is there terrible English on your site?
"Dear Sir,

I am making this contact with you on the strength of my client s need for an individual such as you, who will be willing to receive money on his behalf abroad, and then invest this money for making profit in accordance with the foreign direct investment regulations in your country..."


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Old 11-28-09, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MChristenson View Post
Bianchi Girl,

Thanks, you are making me think. Our website will have a Project Orientation and Persistence between sessions so that a person can build a new machine from existing components and share it with a dealer for example. When things are not known "constrants" can be put on a "Department" to serve as clues to a dealer what client is looking for.

I have thought about this for restoration projects in t
he past. One reason we are doing this project first on the Bicycle domain is because I have been a life long cyclist and even purchased a Schwinn Le Tour this summer for a restoration project. Somehow this bike is not making it with the Bicycle expert as an ideal machine, he owns a Bianchi but I have no clue which model.

The thing is, right now, we are trying to design the "mold" for future Road Bike instances. For example we have some 20 + attributes for Rims. I'm not the Bicycle expert but typically even a good site will only give 3-4-5 attributes then "hide" only some of those missing attributes in the Description Fields (to computers / not to real experts). Note, we have no intention of taking away the description fields, we just want to gather the information for every one of those attributes possible - therefore the idea of using historical bikes.

BTW I live in Door County - NE Wisconsin where folks typically just trust each other a bit more. I had almost forgotten what it must be like "out there".
I think I just learned a new definition for "out there".
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Old 11-28-09, 04:53 PM
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WOW, he even purchased a Schwinn LeTour!!! Must be legit!
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Old 11-28-09, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MChristenson View Post
I have been a life long cyclist and even purchased a Schwinn Le Tour this summer for a restoration project. Somehow this bike is not making it with the Bicycle expert as an ideal machine,

.
Scratching my head.....
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Old 11-28-09, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MChristenson View Post
BTW I live in Door County - NE Wisconsin where folks typically just trust each other a bit more. I had almost forgotten what it must be like "out there".
I don't think that even a Packer fan will let you disassemble and assemble his bike. Now, if he brings you his disassembled "may-eventually-be-a-bike," and you clean, lube, adjust, assemble, and then present it to the www and then him, uh....still a "maybe."

and Kurt's HUH? +25

Last I checked, Door County folks could get their point across pretty succinctly, as in "Those apples are $20/bushel." Thanks, eh!

If you can find someone who would give you their bikes for the winter to work on, take pictures, of, and return, bikes of value and interest and quality, well, there are always folks at both ends of the Bell curve you can work on. I'd like to see what the folks at YellowJersey would say to that deal? It would be much cheaper to run over to treebound's or badgerbiker's house and simply watch them undertake a normal project. You can photo it, and no one gets their bike stolen.
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