TejanoTrackie 

Wow! This deserves a thread all of it's own. The first multi-gear system with the tensioner on the front and a push/pull lever shifting mechanism. It seems like the gear range was pretty limited.

Dawes-man

Yes, that's Mark Stevens, the Gillot collector, the guy I've written to. I LOVE that chainwheel!

T-Mar

It was far from first in this basic concept, which goes back to at least 1900 with the Gradient. The Gradient was capable of handling a 10T difference on a 3 speed freewheel, which is fairly wide.

Dawes-man

Yes, it was in those days as the method of changing was to simply push the chain sideways rather than lift and push as with later derailleurs.

The difference between the big and small chainwheels on my 1960 Vindec is about 2 teeth:

Dawes-man

AFAIK, there was a 32 but not a 32A. looking at this page it seems that the 32 preceded the 49A in the catalogue (can't tell which year it is) and that it was a single. All I can read is that for a double the 49A should be used. I also notice that the dust cap is the same as on my Competition.
https://homepage3.nifty.com/ClassicBi...2crankset.html

I have written to the site owner asking him for info. I'll post what he says if he gets back to me.

T-Mar

Based on the Stone article, it appears that the 49 series started out as single chainring, cotterless models. When Stronglight went to double chainrings, the 49 series was used for them and the single chainring, cotterless models were renamed the 32 series. Finally, the Depose Margue stampings would appear to indicate something from the early 1960s onwards, though someone may have accidentally installed the die insert for the cotter pin models.

The question then becomes whether this is a single chainring crank or a double chainring crank that was downgraded. An old catalogue may provide the clue. The 49D is stated as having a "semi gear case clearance", while the 32R is stated as having "gear case clearance". I take gear case clearance to be the depth of the relief cut into the back of the drive side arm. Crankarms intended for single chainrings would require a deeper relief, as the crankarm would have to sit closer to the bottom bracket to achieve the same chainline as a double chainring crankarm.

Measuring the depth of the relief on the back of arm and comparing it to a known double chainring 49 series, should tell whether you have a 32 or 49A.

I would also like to point out that the Stone article implies that Stronglight invented the cotterless crankest. Actually, Stronglight appears to have revised an existing design created by the Canadian CCM company, which was manufactured from the 1920s through the 1950s, the significant difference being that the CCM design used a spindle with 3 flats versus Stronglight's 4 flats.

Dawes-man

I think both the 49D and the Competition cranks I have can be used with either a single or double, or even triple chainrings by bolting the rings to each other or by using an adapter. I imagine the 32 and 49 were the same and the difference was the length of the bottom bracket spindle supplied with the crank set. You often see rings for sale with extra holes on the spiders for this purpose - https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STRONGLIGHT-93...#ht_500wt_1182 - The system was different from that used by Campagnolo in the 70s, for example, with a relief on the back of the crank spiders, or no relief at all as in the case of Pista cranks meant for single chainwheel use.

Regarding my questions as to why people refer to the cranks I have as 49A when they don't have that stamped on them and why no one ever mentions the COMPETITION in the logos on the arms, I hope to know sometime this week. I sent a message to Satoru Masuda, the owner the site with info and photos of the "49A" and 32 - https://homepage3.nifty.com/ClassicBi...ronglight.html and he answered immediately saying he would send me some 'documents', which I assume to mean copies of the relevant catalogues. The catalogue page for the 32 crankset has a tantalising header for the next listing, the 49A, and to the left the whole pages but too blurred to make out the crank itself. https://homepage3.nifty.com/ClassicBi...2crankset.html

I shall ask his permission to reproduce whatever he sends me here.

Oldpeddaller

It's a Super Champion Modele Course gear changer, made by the Paris based Osgear Company. Roger Lapebie of France won the TDF in 1937 using one. The apparatus comprised a two, three or four sprocket freewheel with an arm under the chainstay to move the chain sideways from one sprocket to another and this front arm with a pulley at the end that was operated from a down tube lever to raise the front arm; slackening the chain to allow it to be moved by the rear arm and then this arm was lowered to re-tension the chain. Cutting edge bicycle technology in its day.

T-Mar

Mystery crankset would appear to be a Stronglight 45.

rhm

But that looks cottered. I'm still inclined toward the 49A:

T-Mar

Yes, you're right

Dawes-man

That's a photo from Satoru Masuda's site, the guy who I contacted and who is going to get back to me this week with 'documents' (shurui in Japanese), by which I think he means the catalogue. If you look at his page for the model 32 you can see a heading for the 49A on the open catalogue behind the crank. I shall be back here when I've heard from him.

rhm

Right.

Lovely crank, whatever it is! I would love to find one of those, preferably around 150 - 160 mm.

JohnDThompson 

I agree. That's what I first suggested to the OP when he posted his query on the SS/FG forum.

SingeDebile

that is a beautiful bike, and those are beautiful cranks!

Dawes-man

Well, I've heard back from Satoru Masuda about why he thinks these cranks are 49A. He sent me a copy of a page from the 1950 catalogue of a London cycling accessories firm called Fonteyn's and which features the 49A. Unfortunately, while the cranks look exactly like my cranks, it makes no mention of the Competition logo, nor does it show the crank clearly enough to see the logo. However, Mr Masuda points out that the earlier cottered Super Competition cranks, models 57 & 63, had no model numbers stamped on them either and he argues that this sort of non-consistent marking/naming was a typical fact with Stronglight cranks.

I still think it odd but I've come to the conclusion that the cranks I have are very likely 49A. What I'd really like is to talk to someone who bought a 49A crankset new in 1950 and that it had Competition in the logo. Probably got a long wait ahead.

Catnap 

Breathing new life into this thread - I bought a pair of Stronglight 49A cranks from Hilary Stone two years ago. I can confirm that they have the same Stronglight logo in an oval, surrounded by "COMPETITION MARQUE DEPOSEE" that others have reported. On the back sides of both crank arms, it is stamped "V.P." above the spindle hole and "170" below it.

The crank arm extractor threads are 23mm, compatible with my vintage Park CCP-1 crank puller. The pedal threads were originally French, but I re-tapped them to BSA.

juvela

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Thanks very much for sharing this information.

The "V.P." marking on the backside of the arm stands for Verot-Perrin.

Etablissements Verot-Perrin is the entity behind such product names as Acier Diamant, Hauptman, Solida, Torevess, Verot...and oh yes, Stronglight.

Founder Laurent Verot not without a sense of whimsy. He created the Torevess marque about 1949 by reverse spelling his last name and adding the -ess suffix to render it more exotique.

https://veloretrocourse.proboards.co...442/quote/1251

https://veloretrocourse.proboards.co...441/quote/1251

Learning of this reminded me of those Bela Lugosi vampire pictures where he portrays a character who went by "Count Alucard" - during the course of the picture we learn that "Alucard" is Dracula spelt backwards.


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Catnap 

Fascinating! Thank you for that bit of knowledge on Verot-Perrin. I had no idea about the company or the founder.