Steel Cotterless Stronglight Competition crank mystery
#1
十人十色
Thread Starter
Steel Cotterless Stronglight Competition crank mystery
Does anyone know this crank? I can't find any mention of it anywhere.
According to Hilary Stone ( https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...ronglight.html ) the Marque Depose denotes a 60s-on model but all the Competition models I can find are pre-60s cotter pin models. Also, the two pin hole dustcaps suggests a pre-early 60s model. Another odd thing is that the dustcap threads are TA rather than Stronglight - they are too big to screw into 49D threads. And the TA extractor I have threads in perfectly whereas the Stronglight extractor is too loose. [This is the wrong way round - please see my revision below]
I'm aware there was a steel version of the 49D (for Duralumin), referred to as the 49A (for Acier, or steel) but assume people would refer to it as the Competition model if they meant cranks like mine, what with that being written on them.
Although I bought these cranks from a dealer in France they have British pedal threads. I bought them for my Thanet but have ended up using them on the Chesini Pista frame I bought in Italy last September. It's turned out beautifully, btw:
More photos at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/2298367...7622858499138/
According to Hilary Stone ( https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...ronglight.html ) the Marque Depose denotes a 60s-on model but all the Competition models I can find are pre-60s cotter pin models. Also, the two pin hole dustcaps suggests a pre-early 60s model. Another odd thing is that the dustcap threads are TA rather than Stronglight - they are too big to screw into 49D threads. And the TA extractor I have threads in perfectly whereas the Stronglight extractor is too loose. [This is the wrong way round - please see my revision below]
I'm aware there was a steel version of the 49D (for Duralumin), referred to as the 49A (for Acier, or steel) but assume people would refer to it as the Competition model if they meant cranks like mine, what with that being written on them.
Although I bought these cranks from a dealer in France they have British pedal threads. I bought them for my Thanet but have ended up using them on the Chesini Pista frame I bought in Italy last September. It's turned out beautifully, btw:
More photos at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/2298367...7622858499138/
Last edited by Dawes-man; 01-09-10 at 09:16 PM.
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#2
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Sorry, can't help ID the crank - apart to say it looks really classy! That Chesini Pista built up well, I remember drooling over your photos when you bought it.
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Dear Sir,
I'm sure I can positively identify it for you, but my eyes are really bad. Please send the entire bicycle to my facility in Nigeria so that I can get a better look.
You can arrange this shipment with my agent after I send a check to you in an amount to greatly exceed the shipping cost.
Please respond immediately.
(nice bike... I'm interested in the answer too)
I'm sure I can positively identify it for you, but my eyes are really bad. Please send the entire bicycle to my facility in Nigeria so that I can get a better look.
You can arrange this shipment with my agent after I send a check to you in an amount to greatly exceed the shipping cost.
Please respond immediately.
(nice bike... I'm interested in the answer too)
#4
十人十色
Thread Starter
Thank you. I can't tell you how pleased I am with how it's turned out. After 2 months in my living room it was a real surprise to see the Velato finish (clear, green paint on chromium plate) out in the light of day. It's dazzling. It also rides beautifully.
#5
十人十色
Thread Starter
Dear Sir,
I'm sure I can positively identify it for you, but my eyes are really bad. Please send the entire bicycle to my facility in Nigeria so that I can get a better look.
You can arrange this shipment with my agent after I send a check to you in an amount to greatly exceed the shipping cost.
Please respond immediately.
I'm sure I can positively identify it for you, but my eyes are really bad. Please send the entire bicycle to my facility in Nigeria so that I can get a better look.
You can arrange this shipment with my agent after I send a check to you in an amount to greatly exceed the shipping cost.
Please respond immediately.
Last edited by Dawes-man; 01-09-10 at 08:56 PM.
#6
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#7
十人十色
Thread Starter
The two-pin-hole dustcaps in the Competition cranks are a loose fit in the 49D crank threads, as is the TA extractor. It's the screwdriver type dustcaps in the 49D cranks, and the Stronglight extractor, that are too large for the Competition crank threads.
If you would like other photos, of the TA and Stronglight extractors (I have both), or of the Competition cranks, let me know.
#8
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#10
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No, of course not! However, I got my 49D/Competition dust cap sizes back to front above.
The two-pin-hole dustcaps in the Competition cranks are a loose fit in the 49D crank threads, as is the TA extractor. It's the screwdriver type dustcaps in the 49D cranks, and the Stronglight extractor, that are too large for the Competition crank threads.
The two-pin-hole dustcaps in the Competition cranks are a loose fit in the 49D crank threads, as is the TA extractor. It's the screwdriver type dustcaps in the 49D cranks, and the Stronglight extractor, that are too large for the Competition crank threads.
-Kurt
#11
十人十色
Thread Starter
No, my Vernier reads 22mm for the Competition extractor threads ID and the 49D 22.2.
The TA extractor, which works with the Competition cranks, measures 22.9mm whereas the Stronglight extractor is 23.1mm. The TA extractor is a loose fit in the 49D crank threads
CORRECTION - "while the TA extractor screws in a couple threads on the 49D but won't go any more."
SHOULD BE - "...while the Stronglight extractor screws in a couple threads on the Competition crank but won't go any more."
Sorry everyone!
Last edited by Dawes-man; 01-10-10 at 09:03 PM.
#12
十人十色
Thread Starter
https://velobase.com/ViewSingleCompon...115&AbsPos=743
There is also this seller on ebay France who thinks he's got a 49A and it looks like the one on Velobase:
https://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache...&client=safari
Last edited by Dawes-man; 01-10-10 at 03:31 AM.
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It's perfectly possible that the design was revised during its production life, or so would be my best guess.
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Given the era, construction and Stonglight's nomenclature, they should be 32A.
#15
Unique Vintage Steel
Interesting, I ran across a very similar crankset to the one in the original post on ebay not too long ago. It reminded me much more of a TA crank than a stronglight, but because they seller made no reference to the model number, nor could I find any information about such a crank online or in my other stronglight resources I wasn't able to add it to VeloBase's collection of information. Of course I'm sure I've deleted that crank from my Watch List by now so it'll be near impossible to find it again for comparison.
#16
Unique Vintage Steel
Found this image on Bikeville's website:
They have them labeled as a Model 49 for what that is worth. (though these appear to be alum)
They have them labeled as a Model 49 for what that is worth. (though these appear to be alum)
#17
Unique Vintage Steel
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No, my Vernier reads 22mm for the Competition extractor threads ID and the 49D 22.2.
The TA extractor, which works with the Competition cranks, measures 22.9mm whereas the Stronglight extractor is 23.1mm. The TA extractor is a loose fit in the 49D crank threads while the TA extractor screws in a couple threads on the 49D but won't go any more.
The TA extractor, which works with the Competition cranks, measures 22.9mm whereas the Stronglight extractor is 23.1mm. The TA extractor is a loose fit in the 49D crank threads while the TA extractor screws in a couple threads on the 49D but won't go any more.
-Kurt
#19
十人十色
Thread Starter
Here is one for the "Competition is a 49A" camp; Mark Stevens, the Gillot collector, has the same crank as mine on a 1955 Gillot Fleur de Lys and refers to it as a Stronglight 49A. https://www.flickr.com/photos/makfrea...7605305577870/ I've written to him asking why he calls them 49A.
However, I have just removed the crank from my Chesini to check what is written on the back and compared it with a 49D crank that I have:
The upper is an early 49D and the lower is the crank from my Chesini. You can see the D is thicker than the steel crank and a little greyer in colour.
A close-up of the brand moldings - MARQUE DEPOSEE is accepted as denoting a later, post-50s, 49D crank but perhaps they had different rules for steel cranks at the factory?:
This is the back of the 49D ring flange with 49D clearly visible, stamped into the metal to the left of the taper.
This is the back of the steel crank ring flange - no 49A
Searching the internet you will find many people refer to a Stronglight 49A model (the A is for acier, the French for steel) and sometimes show a photo of the steel crank shown here, with COMPETITION written on it and yet nowhere does anyone say that they are the same model or mention that the 49A has Competition written on it.
Either someone somewhere has a steel crank like this one with 49A written on the back or someone somewhere somewhen has simply but mistakenly referred to this crank as a 49A and others have followed suit.
Or Stronglight themselves referred to this model as a 49A in their catalogue - does anyone have a catalogue showing this model?
However, I have just removed the crank from my Chesini to check what is written on the back and compared it with a 49D crank that I have:
The upper is an early 49D and the lower is the crank from my Chesini. You can see the D is thicker than the steel crank and a little greyer in colour.
A close-up of the brand moldings - MARQUE DEPOSEE is accepted as denoting a later, post-50s, 49D crank but perhaps they had different rules for steel cranks at the factory?:
This is the back of the 49D ring flange with 49D clearly visible, stamped into the metal to the left of the taper.
This is the back of the steel crank ring flange - no 49A
Searching the internet you will find many people refer to a Stronglight 49A model (the A is for acier, the French for steel) and sometimes show a photo of the steel crank shown here, with COMPETITION written on it and yet nowhere does anyone say that they are the same model or mention that the 49A has Competition written on it.
Either someone somewhere has a steel crank like this one with 49A written on the back or someone somewhere somewhen has simply but mistakenly referred to this crank as a 49A and others have followed suit.
Or Stronglight themselves referred to this model as a 49A in their catalogue - does anyone have a catalogue showing this model?
Last edited by Dawes-man; 01-10-10 at 08:30 PM.
#20
十人十色
Thread Starter
No, my Vernier reads 22mm for the Competition extractor threads ID and the 49D 22.2.
The TA extractor, which works with the Competition cranks, measures 22.9mm whereas the Stronglight extractor is 23.1mm. The TA extractor is a loose fit in the 49D crank threads while the TA extractor screws in a couple threads on the 49D but won't go any more.
The TA extractor, which works with the Competition cranks, measures 22.9mm whereas the Stronglight extractor is 23.1mm. The TA extractor is a loose fit in the 49D crank threads while the TA extractor screws in a couple threads on the 49D but won't go any more.
Yes, I looked at the other thread you linked. On the Campagnolo extractor thread being 22mm (ref. Stronglight later going to that size), the Campag cranks I have to hand (1977 and 1983) both have 18.8mm ID extractor threads. I don't have a Campag tool for them and use a Shimano extractor which when placed in a 49D Stronglight just drops in the hole without touching the sides.
You are right about using the right extractor for the crank. The main problem I have heard of is people who use a TA extractor in a Stronglight 49D crank and ruin it. Of course, as the Stronglight extractor (for the 49D) is too big to fit in a TA crank there is no risk of damage being caused to the TA crank.
I have the correct period, Stronglight extractor that fit perfectly the 3 Stronglight 49D cranks I have on bikes and the one set I have as a spare, a proper TA extractor that strangely fits perfectly in the Stronglight Competition cranks on my Chesini and a Shimano extractor that fits the 3 Campag cranks I'm actually using on bikes and the 2 crank sets I have but am not presently using. All the Campag cranks are either SR, NR or GS.
Last edited by Dawes-man; 01-10-10 at 09:09 PM.
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Unfortunately, I am not an expert when it comes to French stuff, but I have to wonder openly if perhaps Stronglight may have branded things differently for export than they did for the home market - ie a french threaded crank may not have been stamped "competition" but an english threaded one would have been?
Little variations like that are rarely cataloged when they occur.
Little variations like that are rarely cataloged when they occur.
#22
十人十色
Thread Starter
Unfortunately, I am not an expert when it comes to French stuff, but I have to wonder openly if perhaps Stronglight may have branded things differently for export than they did for the home market - ie a french threaded crank may not have been stamped "competition" but an english threaded one would have been?
Little variations like that are rarely cataloged when they occur.
Little variations like that are rarely cataloged when they occur.
The other thing is that these cranks have British pedal sizes although I bought them from a dealer in France. I have both French pedal and British pedal 49Ds and apart from that look identical on the arms.
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This guy claims these are 49A too - and they are marked competition.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/makfrea...7613207728017/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/makfrea...7613207728017/
#24
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This guy claims these are 49A too - and they are marked competition.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/makfrea...7613207728017/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/makfrea...7613207728017/