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Steel Cotterless Stronglight Competition crank mystery

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Steel Cotterless Stronglight Competition crank mystery

Old 01-09-10, 07:46 PM
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Dawes-man
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Steel Cotterless Stronglight Competition crank mystery

Does anyone know this crank? I can't find any mention of it anywhere.





According to Hilary Stone ( https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...ronglight.html ) the Marque Depose denotes a 60s-on model but all the Competition models I can find are pre-60s cotter pin models. Also, the two pin hole dustcaps suggests a pre-early 60s model. Another odd thing is that the dustcap threads are TA rather than Stronglight - they are too big to screw into 49D threads. And the TA extractor I have threads in perfectly whereas the Stronglight extractor is too loose. [This is the wrong way round - please see my revision below]

I'm aware there was a steel version of the 49D (for Duralumin), referred to as the 49A (for Acier, or steel) but assume people would refer to it as the Competition model if they meant cranks like mine, what with that being written on them.

Although I bought these cranks from a dealer in France they have British pedal threads. I bought them for my Thanet but have ended up using them on the Chesini Pista frame I bought in Italy last September. It's turned out beautifully, btw:



More photos at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/2298367...7622858499138/

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Old 01-09-10, 07:50 PM
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Sorry, can't help ID the crank - apart to say it looks really classy! That Chesini Pista built up well, I remember drooling over your photos when you bought it.
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Old 01-09-10, 07:54 PM
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Dear Sir,

I'm sure I can positively identify it for you, but my eyes are really bad. Please send the entire bicycle to my facility in Nigeria so that I can get a better look.

You can arrange this shipment with my agent after I send a check to you in an amount to greatly exceed the shipping cost.

Please respond immediately.

(nice bike... I'm interested in the answer too)
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Old 01-09-10, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Oldpeddaller View Post
Sorry, can't help ID the crank - apart to say it looks really classy! That Chesini Pista built up well, I remember drooling over your photos when you bought it.
Thank you. I can't tell you how pleased I am with how it's turned out. After 2 months in my living room it was a real surprise to see the Velato finish (clear, green paint on chromium plate) out in the light of day. It's dazzling. It also rides beautifully.
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Old 01-09-10, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ivandarken View Post
Dear Sir,

I'm sure I can positively identify it for you, but my eyes are really bad. Please send the entire bicycle to my facility in Nigeria so that I can get a better look.

You can arrange this shipment with my agent after I send a check to you in an amount to greatly exceed the shipping cost.

Please respond immediately.
Yeah, sure!

Last edited by Dawes-man; 01-09-10 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 01-09-10, 08:23 PM
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Dawes-man, do you mind if I reproduce those two crankset photos for my article on crank extractor sizes (for The Headbadge)?

-Kurt
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Old 01-09-10, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Dawes-man, do you mind if I reproduce those two crankset photos for my article on crank extractor sizes (for The Headbadge)?

-Kurt
No, of course not! However, I got my 49D/Competition dust cap sizes back to front above.

The two-pin-hole dustcaps in the Competition cranks are a loose fit in the 49D crank threads, as is the TA extractor. It's the screwdriver type dustcaps in the 49D cranks, and the Stronglight extractor, that are too large for the Competition crank threads.

If you would like other photos, of the TA and Stronglight extractors (I have both), or of the Competition cranks, let me know.
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Old 01-09-10, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ivandarken View Post
(nice bike... I'm interested in the answer [to what the cranks are] too)
JohnDThompson, over on SS&FW, has just ventured the opinion that these cranks are 49A but I don't think so for the reasons outlined above.
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Old 01-09-10, 09:45 PM
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https://homepage3.nifty.com/ClassicBi...t49Acrank.html ???
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Old 01-09-10, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dawes-man View Post
No, of course not! However, I got my 49D/Competition dust cap sizes back to front above.

The two-pin-hole dustcaps in the Competition cranks are a loose fit in the 49D crank threads, as is the TA extractor. It's the screwdriver type dustcaps in the 49D cranks, and the Stronglight extractor, that are too large for the Competition crank threads.
That's what I thought - these particular cranks have 23mm extractor threads - correct?

-Kurt
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Old 01-10-10, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
That's what I thought - these particular cranks have 23mm extractor threads - correct?

No, my Vernier reads 22mm for the Competition extractor threads ID and the 49D 22.2.

The TA extractor, which works with the Competition cranks, measures 22.9mm whereas the Stronglight extractor is 23.1mm. The TA extractor is a loose fit in the 49D crank threads

CORRECTION - "while the TA extractor screws in a couple threads on the 49D but won't go any more."

SHOULD BE - "...while the Stronglight extractor screws in a couple threads on the Competition crank but won't go any more."

Sorry everyone!

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Old 01-10-10, 02:58 AM
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Thanks for the link. The host certainly thinks they are 49A but he could be wrong. Velobase shows a different crank for the 49A:
https://velobase.com/ViewSingleCompon...115&AbsPos=743

There is also this seller on ebay France who thinks he's got a 49A and it looks like the one on Velobase:
https://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache...&client=safari

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Old 01-10-10, 03:27 AM
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It's perfectly possible that the design was revised during its production life, or so would be my best guess.
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Old 01-10-10, 09:05 AM
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Given the era, construction and Stonglight's nomenclature, they should be 32A.
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Old 01-10-10, 10:50 AM
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Interesting, I ran across a very similar crankset to the one in the original post on ebay not too long ago. It reminded me much more of a TA crank than a stronglight, but because they seller made no reference to the model number, nor could I find any information about such a crank online or in my other stronglight resources I wasn't able to add it to VeloBase's collection of information. Of course I'm sure I've deleted that crank from my Watch List by now so it'll be near impossible to find it again for comparison.
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Old 01-10-10, 10:52 AM
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Found this image on Bikeville's website:



They have them labeled as a Model 49 for what that is worth. (though these appear to be alum)
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Old 01-10-10, 10:55 AM
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Ok, they are a 60's era "49A"



https://www.flickr.com/photos/stronglight/3520344133/
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Old 01-10-10, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dawes-man View Post
No, my Vernier reads 22mm for the Competition extractor threads ID and the 49D 22.2.

The TA extractor, which works with the Competition cranks, measures 22.9mm whereas the Stronglight extractor is 23.1mm. The TA extractor is a loose fit in the 49D crank threads while the TA extractor screws in a couple threads on the 49D but won't go any more.
See: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post10228283

-Kurt
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Old 01-10-10, 08:24 PM
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Here is one for the "Competition is a 49A" camp; Mark Stevens, the Gillot collector, has the same crank as mine on a 1955 Gillot Fleur de Lys and refers to it as a Stronglight 49A. https://www.flickr.com/photos/makfrea...7605305577870/ I've written to him asking why he calls them 49A.

However, I have just removed the crank from my Chesini to check what is written on the back and compared it with a 49D crank that I have:


The upper is an early 49D and the lower is the crank from my Chesini. You can see the D is thicker than the steel crank and a little greyer in colour.

A close-up of the brand moldings - MARQUE DEPOSEE is accepted as denoting a later, post-50s, 49D crank but perhaps they had different rules for steel cranks at the factory?:


This is the back of the 49D ring flange with 49D clearly visible, stamped into the metal to the left of the taper.


This is the back of the steel crank ring flange - no 49A


Searching the internet you will find many people refer to a Stronglight 49A model (the A is for acier, the French for steel) and sometimes show a photo of the steel crank shown here, with COMPETITION written on it and yet nowhere does anyone say that they are the same model or mention that the 49A has Competition written on it.

Either someone somewhere has a steel crank like this one with 49A written on the back or someone somewhere somewhen has simply but mistakenly referred to this crank as a 49A and others have followed suit.

Or Stronglight themselves referred to this model as a 49A in their catalogue - does anyone have a catalogue showing this model?

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Old 01-10-10, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dawes-man View Post
No, my Vernier reads 22mm for the Competition extractor threads ID and the 49D 22.2.

The TA extractor, which works with the Competition cranks, measures 22.9mm whereas the Stronglight extractor is 23.1mm. The TA extractor is a loose fit in the 49D crank threads while the TA extractor screws in a couple threads on the 49D but won't go any more.
Sorry Kurt! I need a brain-transplant, or perhaps simply a bullet. The last phrase should have read, '... while the Stronglight extractor screws in a couple threads on the steel Competition but won't go any more'. I shall amend the original.

Yes, I looked at the other thread you linked. On the Campagnolo extractor thread being 22mm (ref. Stronglight later going to that size), the Campag cranks I have to hand (1977 and 1983) both have 18.8mm ID extractor threads. I don't have a Campag tool for them and use a Shimano extractor which when placed in a 49D Stronglight just drops in the hole without touching the sides.

You are right about using the right extractor for the crank. The main problem I have heard of is people who use a TA extractor in a Stronglight 49D crank and ruin it. Of course, as the Stronglight extractor (for the 49D) is too big to fit in a TA crank there is no risk of damage being caused to the TA crank.

I have the correct period, Stronglight extractor that fit perfectly the 3 Stronglight 49D cranks I have on bikes and the one set I have as a spare, a proper TA extractor that strangely fits perfectly in the Stronglight Competition cranks on my Chesini and a Shimano extractor that fits the 3 Campag cranks I'm actually using on bikes and the 2 crank sets I have but am not presently using. All the Campag cranks are either SR, NR or GS.

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Old 01-10-10, 09:02 PM
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Unfortunately, I am not an expert when it comes to French stuff, but I have to wonder openly if perhaps Stronglight may have branded things differently for export than they did for the home market - ie a french threaded crank may not have been stamped "competition" but an english threaded one would have been?

Little variations like that are rarely cataloged when they occur.
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Old 01-10-10, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Mos6502 View Post
Unfortunately, I am not an expert when it comes to French stuff, but I have to wonder openly if perhaps Stronglight may have branded things differently for export than they did for the home market - ie a french threaded crank may not have been stamped "competition" but an english threaded one would have been?

Little variations like that are rarely cataloged when they occur.
While that is true, I would think that they were unlikely to have different tooling for the cranks as they are expensive. If there were any differences I imagine it would be in what is stamped on the back - stamping just needs a stamp and a big hammer.

The other thing is that these cranks have British pedal sizes although I bought them from a dealer in France. I have both French pedal and British pedal 49Ds and apart from that look identical on the arms.
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Old 01-10-10, 09:41 PM
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This guy claims these are 49A too - and they are marked competition.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/makfrea...7613207728017/
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Old 01-10-10, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mos6502 View Post
This guy claims these are 49A too - and they are marked competition.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/makfrea...7613207728017/
What on earth is the brass-colored bar behind the chainring......kickstand?
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Old 01-10-10, 09:55 PM
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It's a chain-tensioner.
-Gene-
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