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  1. #4701
    Senior Member Gasbag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    You may eventually need some Whitworth spanners (wrenches). Metric and SAE wrenches don't fit some Whitworth nuts. Or do you have the wrenches already?

    What did you have to do to fix up the Rudge?
    Being a truck mechanic, I have a well stocked tool box though I don't have any whitworth. As a last resort, I use Snap On adjustable wrenches when the prospect of buggering a hex looks imminent. Nothing can foul the air of my shop with blue language faster than tools that perform poorly. There may be a whitworth purchase in the future. The Rudge required no tools that I don't already own but a properly fitting lock ring spanner and a better quality 16mm cone wrench would have made the job easier.

  2. #4702
    Senior Member Gasbag's Avatar
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    What did you have to do to fix up the Rudge?[/QUOTE]

    The Rudge had dead paint which required a careful rub out with Scratch X. I used Wolfgang paint color enhancer followed by two applications of Wolfgang paint sealant to get the color to pop. All of the old battle scars were left intact save straightening a fender stay. I used Fiebings horse saddle conditioner on the Brooks. The front hub was missing a bearing so I bought a bag of 100 grade 25 bearings from a local bearing dealer. All the small parts were hydro-sonically cleaned and then hand polished. I wiped the cable housings with a rag sprayed with carburetor cleaner and then rubbed paint sealer on them. All bearings were greased with Phil Woods finest. I filled the AS hub with Tri-Flow on my truing stand and spun & drained it until it ticked over nicely and the the fluid ran out clean. The chrome was lightly rusty so I hand polished it with chrome cleaner applied with aluminum foil.

    A lot of work went into it, but I'm very satisfied with the outcome.

  3. #4703
    Senior Member crank_addict's Avatar
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    What's the appropriate tire look for a late 50's clubman - gumwall or all black? (Black frame bike with 700C wide polished rims.)

  4. #4704
    Wood David Newton's Avatar
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    Rudge was sold to Raleigh in 1943
    http://davidnewtonguitars.squarespace.com/

  5. #4705
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasbag View Post
    a better quality 16mm cone wrench would have made the job easier.
    Surely the Real Thing would be better:


  6. #4706
    Senior Member Gasbag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
    Surely the Real Thing would be better:


    The right tool for the job. The search is on!

  7. #4707
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
    Surely the Real Thing would be better:

    I bought a number of these a few years ago.

  8. #4708
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    I bought a number of these a few years ago.
    Same here. They seem to turn up in batch lots on eBay occasionally.

  9. #4709
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    +1 on the Whitworth wrenches. Working on the old Raleighs got a lot easier when I finally broke down and bought a set. A mix of metric and SAE had been mostly adequate but I was a lot happier with wrenches that fit correctly.

  10. #4710
    Senior Member Gasbag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
    What's the appropriate tire look for a late 50's clubman - gumwall or all black? (Black frame bike with 700C wide polished rims.)
    I've seen both. In the videos "Cyclists Special" parts 1 & 2 the bikes are on predominately blackwall. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyz5d3entBw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGYng...ature=youtu.be

    In catalog scans for Raleigh Lentons and Hercules Kestrels they have both choices.

    My 1962 Hercules clubman has old Camel gumwalls that have a real nice orange color but are too dry cracked to ride on. It will get another set of gumwalls when it gets it turn on the repair stand.

    So, I guess the answer is either, according to your tastes.

  11. #4711
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Newton View Post
    Rudge was sold to Raleigh in 1943
    Really! I didn't know that. My Rudge still has the distinctive Rudge fork crown, which I love. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the chainring with the logo.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
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  12. #4712
    Senior Member Gasbag's Avatar
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    My Rudge doesn't have the hand chainring either. If I ever have the good fortune to locate one in good condition and priced fairly, it will be installed promptly. The hand is a defining feature of the Rudge-Whitworth after all.

    Raleigh bought Rudge to avoid living up to their exclusive territory obligations. If a shop in a town already sold Raleigh and another shop wanted to sell them, the second shop was provided with the Rudge brand. This also goes to explain the relative scarcity of Rudge-Whitworth bicycles.
    Last edited by Gasbag; 09-29-13 at 10:41 AM. Reason: addendum

  13. #4713
    Senior Member gbalke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasbag View Post
    My Rudge doesn't have the hand chainring either. If I ever have the good fortune to locate one in good condition and priced fairly, it will be installed promptly. The hand is a defining feature of the Rudge-Whitworth after all.
    There's one on e-Bay UK right now, current bid is only 1.2 Pounds; about $2.50 or so. However, shipping is 16.99 Pounds; $26 more or less. Here's a link:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Ru...ht_4643wt_1235
    1968 Robin Hood 3 speed...1970's Raleigh Sports Pathracer
    1972 Raleigh Sports............1973 Raleigh Sports
    1974 Raleigh Grand Prix......1974 Raleigh Grand Prix (made in Holland)
    1969 Peugeot UO-18...........1971 Peugeot UO-8
    1980's Giant Project.............2007 Trek 3700 mountain bike
    1971 German 3 speed.........1977 Motobecane Super Mirage Mixte
    1970 Raleigh Twenty...........1972 Raleigh Sports (donor bike)
    1954 Humber Sports (my newest project)

  14. #4714
    Wood David Newton's Avatar
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    Rudge was sold to Raleigh in 1943
    Really! I didn't know that.
    Tom, I didn't know that because I'm any expert, but I read that they were an "early acquisition".
    Rudge is usually mentioned along with Hercules, that Raleigh, TI really, absorbed in 1960, which was the last of the other big names.
    Rudge was earlier bought by EMI the record company, of all things, and sold when they realized that bicycle making didn't fit them well.
    Rudge was always a premier brand, and Raleigh kept them that way until there was only room for one at the top.
    What an arcane story the simple 3-speed bike turns out to be.
    http://davidnewtonguitars.squarespace.com/

  15. #4715
    Chip seal rocks Howard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Newton View Post
    Tom, I didn't know that because I'm any expert, but I read that they were an "early acquisition".
    Rudge is usually mentioned along with Hercules, that Raleigh, TI really, absorbed in 1960, which was the last of the other big names.
    Rudge was earlier bought by EMI the record company, of all things, and sold when they realized that bicycle making didn't fit them well.
    Rudge was always a premier brand, and Raleigh kept them that way until there was only room for one at the top.
    What an arcane story the simple 3-speed bike turns out to be.

    I kind of understood it to have been the other way around. TI bought Raleigh, and since Raleigh's Nottingham works were more capable than the Birmingham and other factories of the BCC empire, production was moved to Nottingham.

    This is kind of ironic, because (again as I understand it) the pre-merger Hercules used 24TPI for headsets and bb's, but afterward used Raleigh 26TPI parts. The 24TPI standard survives even today.

    Of course, I might have all that twisted all the way around two or three times.

  16. #4716
    Wood David Newton's Avatar
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    You've got it right Howard, my bad sentence structure shows. TI owned Raleigh, and was doing all the consolidation.
    What is hard for us to understand is how Britain had so many threads, and a standard was so late coming. There are some amazing stories of how things had to be done when the war departments were buying out components from diverse shops.
    http://davidnewtonguitars.squarespace.com/

  17. #4717
    Chip seal rocks Howard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Newton View Post
    You've got it right Howard, my bad sentence structure shows. TI owned Raleigh, and was doing all the consolidation.
    What is hard for us to understand is how Britain had so many threads, and a standard was so late coming. There are some amazing stories of how things had to be done when the war departments were buying out components from diverse shops.
    As we sometimes say at work, "the nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them."

    I'll bet the stories are indeed amazing.

    I once added up how much it cost per mile to operate various bicycles I've had. The (Raleigh Sports - like) Hercules came in at around 4 or 5 cents per mile (tires, tubes, etc. plus fully accounting for the purchase price). Shoes typically cost more than that. Seriously, at that time, it cost me more to walk three miles than to ride the Sports. Bet it still does.

  18. #4718
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I have no doubt a three speed is more economical than most other bikes, but I've never heard the cost of cycling compared with that of walking. Could that possibly be true?
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  19. #4719
    Wood David Newton's Avatar
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    Seriously, at that time, it cost me more to walk three miles than to ride the Sports. Bet it still does.
    It isn't hard to believe. As engineers say "if it looks right, it is right". I have always heard that the bicycle is one of the most efficient machines ever invented. I ride a single speed freewheel bike with rim brakes. It goes so easily, I am fooling myself to claim that I ride for exercise.
    http://davidnewtonguitars.squarespace.com/

  20. #4720
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I have no doubt a three speed is more economical than most other bikes, but I've never heard the cost of cycling compared with that of walking. Could that possibly be true?
    If time is money, sure.

  21. #4721
    gna
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    Count Orlok Member gna's Avatar
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    Everyone--bad news. Many of you have bought cotters, cotter presses, or 3-speed parts from Mark Stonich, aka Bikesmith of Bikesmith Designs. Mark was recently in a serious collision--he was hit from behind by an elderly driver--and has multiple fractures and a concussion. He is currently in the hospital recuperating, but seems more concerned by damage to his 1972 Holdsworth Mistral.

    Send emails to Mark, who has his iPad at the hospital:

    mark@bikesmithdesign.com
    Quote Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
    Sure it works in practice, but will it work in theory.

  22. #4722
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
    Surely the Real Thing would be better:

    The things you need when you ride a bike with an SA hub...


  23. #4723
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gna View Post
    Everyone--bad news. Many of you have bought cotters, cotter presses, or 3-speed parts from Mark Stonich, aka Bikesmith of Bikesmith Designs. Mark was recently in a serious collision--he was hit from behind by an elderly driver--and has multiple fractures and a concussion. He is currently in the hospital recuperating, but seems more concerned by damage to his 1972 Holdsworth Mistral.

    Send emails to Mark, who has his iPad at the hospital:

    mark@bikesmithdesign.com
    Sounds like he is a real cyclist, worrying about his bike more than himself.

  24. #4724
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    Sounds like he is a real cyclist, worrying about his bike more than himself.
    Mark is a huge asset to the vintage bike community in MSP as well as many other places. I have purchased a lot of odd Sturmey-Archer parts from him. He also has been involved in HPV events in MN. He built a recumbent using a Raleigh Sports frame a while back. He is quite the innovator.

    Aaron
    Last edited by wahoonc; 10-01-13 at 08:22 AM.
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
    RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
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    "Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
    Aluminum: barely a hundred
    Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
    _krazygluon

  25. #4725
    Senior Member Gasbag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbalke View Post
    There's one on e-Bay UK right now, current bid is only 1.2 Pounds; about $2.50 or so. However, shipping is 16.99 Pounds; $26 more or less. Here's a link:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Ru...ht_4643wt_1235
    Thanks for the lead. The chrome on the crank arms is too degraded on this one. I saw another one but it was badly scratched up. I'll have to keep waiting & watching.

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