sjmoses

First, my apologies if this should be in the mechanics forum - I was not quite sure.

My fiancée has an old Lotus Excelle mixte which has generally seen better days, but the frame is in pretty good shape. So I am embarking on a project of rebuilding it. Part of this is going to involve a modern 9-speed drivetrain. (We live in a hilly place - I want to put a lot of range on the cassette, so 9 speeds makes a lot of sense.)

To get to the point, the bike currently has mostly Shimano 600 Arabesque components, and it makes me a little grumpy that nothing I might replace these parts with will be nearly as cool looking. So, is there any chance that the rear derailleur has enough travel to accommodate a 9-speed cassette?

PS - If it is important, this is going to need index shifters of some form - my fiancee and friction shifters do not get along. (And frankly, friction shifters are really only for a certain obsessive group of people who I respect greatly, but am not one of.)

stien

While the derailleur might reach to 9 (my Nuovo Record does 8 with ease, but it's friction) it might not match up with your indexed shifters. Best to go with a matching shifter and rear derailleur in my opinion.

thirdgenbird

my guess is it hat plenty of travel for 9spd. indexing could be an issue though.

dont give up of friction yet. my fiancee acclimated herself to friction very quickly. if you have not tried friction shifting with a modern cassette and chain you are really missing out. it works wonderfully. her bike has a modern 8spd cassette and a 9spd chain and it is one of the smoothest shifting bikes i have ridden.

and for the record, we are not "old" and obsessive. i am 25 and she is 22.

stien

+1 on the friction being great. I'm using a SRAM 8s cassette and SRAM 8s chain with the aforementioned NR derailleur and it's effortless and such a pleasure to shift. And I'm 22

...and I can't believe you're going to get married TGB! She must be a special lady. Clearly she has some merit, since she bikes!

Epicus07 

Unfortunately there aren't any 9 speed derailleurs that i know that look really cool.

If the arabesque components are in good shape i would keep them. I'm sure that the derailleur could accommodate an 8 speed if not 9 speed cassette. to my knowledge 7-10 speed cassettes are all the same width, just have different spacing. I imagine your 600 is 6 speed?

You will need to get the frame spaced for a modern wheel (130mm) vs its current (126mm? ) which is very easy to do if you have a good LBS around. I'm not sure if you can use STI 9 speed with that derailleur but you could certainly use the downtube shifters on there (in friction mode if nothing else).

I think it would be cool to get some nice modern wheels, throw on an 8 speed cassette ( 8 speed drive will last longer) take the downtube shifters and turn them into bar ends and keep the bike looking classy.

https://www.rivbike.com/products/show...ts-pair/17-068


that being said... you don't need 9 speeds to handle hilly areas. it is slightly more convenient but you can have good gear ratios with any number of speeds.

Good luck

post pictures

thirdgenbird

Thanks. not only does she like bikes, but she wanted to build it. she did the bottom bracket, headset, rear derailleur, computer, and was my 3rd hand for cable routing and bar tape.


she also picked out the saddle, bar tape, and cables.

here is her ride (with the same shifter pods above)

canyoneagle

Great bike! I like the bar ends.
I would bet that the RD could manage the lateral sweep for 9sp, but doubt it could handle a huge range with the standard cage. I don't think it would work with indexing, unless by pure luck/coincidence.

Neat bike!

toytech

It will index with 8speed for sure (I have done this) limit screws will be maxed. I used 105 brifters for my sons Bianchi to accomplish this combined with velomax circuit wheels and Arabesque Derailleurs and cranks.

thirdgenbird

good to know toytech. i am a campy guy but arabesque is pretty stuff.

sjmoses

Thanks. That's interesting.... There is only 1mm difference in the width of 8-speed and 9-speed cassettes. Also, if it will index with 8-speed, I'm pretty sure that means it would index with 9 speed. (Pretty sure than Shimano 9-speed shifters were compatible with 8-speed derailleurs and vice versa). Also, I measured the total throw of the derailleur at 42mm, which is more than enough for any size cassette (assuming it lines up right so there isn't much wasted travel).

The real question is probably going to be how large a cog it will shift over.... My impression is people weren't much for putting 32t cogs on road bikes back when these were made.

Ah, well, guess worst case is it doesn't work and I have to use an xt or similar derailleur. (Would rather use Sram Apex given a choice, but they never made 9-speed bar end shifters - or 8, for that matter, and I'm not sure there is a Shiftmate that works to match this derailleur to Shimano shifters).

sjmoses

Going to do my best to keep it looking classy. Planning on sticking with bar end shifters - I really love the functionality of trigger shifters, but they just look so clunky (and don't get me starter on grip shifters). I know I don't really need 9 speeds, but there isn't any really advantage to 8 other than a slight durability edge, which I'm not worried about. Been using 9 speed drive on my bike for years with no issues. The real issue is more the range than the number of speeds, but not having huge gaps is nice. Doing a compact double front, so I want the range, since there won't be a tiny ring in front.

Switching to some form of city bike bars. I like the way drops look, but really not that practical for around town. Thinking the Albatross bar or something like it. Maybe with leather grips if there is enough budget left for them.

Probably going to get the super shiny wheels from Velo Orange, because I think this bike will benefit from the look of polished rims, and I don't know any other decent options for those.

cs1

If it does 8 it should do 9 or 10, the cassettes are same width. That would be interesting to see.

stien

That may be but it'll start hitting spokes on the biggest cog unless I grind down the nut holding on one of the pulleys.

RobbieTunes

7-speed cassettes are not the same size as 8/9/10, they are 4mm narrower.
8/9/10 cassettes are the same size, and the only difference I've found is sometimes the thin backing washer is needed on the wheel.

My 600 arabesque RD on a Soma would not go the 8/9/10 range, but if others have done it, that's a good thing.

If you want to go to a wide-range cassette, and the arabesque has the range both in/out and for the largest cassette cog, that's out of the way.

Next would be clearance. Many a 6/7-sp frame (126mm wide rear) will accommodate the extra 4mm width needed for a wheel with a 9-sp cassette.
However, the cassette will come outboard much closer to the chain stays than the original freewheel, and you want to make sure you have clearance for the smaller cogs, with a chain on them, at that rear chain stay.

I'm assuming an upgrade to a 9-sp drivetrain will mean a wheel swap, at least on the rear, and going from 6 to 9 generally also means going from 27 to 700c on the wheel size. Make sure your brake calipers can handle the extra 4mm of reach needed.

Any mixte upgrade is pretty fun, and pretty challenging, I've found, but worth it in the end. Good luck with your build.

khatfull

Hey, I resemble that saddle!

thirdgenbird

That is your stem too.

(The frame was Robbie's and the bottle cage was from rat fink)