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Old 03-17-13, 01:02 PM   #1251
Italuminium
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^ looks like heaps of fun
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Old 03-17-13, 02:13 PM   #1252
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Originally Posted by mainstreetexile View Post
To each, their own. All of the braze-ons on the cimarron and early touring-style mtbs are part of what really interests me in those frames. I'm curious to see how lightweight you can get it, but with the 70 degree angles, it seems like there would be better starting points for your project. There were other racier MTBs with steeper angles and no fender/rack eyelets made around 85-88 (some of the higher end bridgestones etc).
That's the beauty of it, you can do what you want, and I'll do what I want! I don't feel like anything I've done has diminished the bike in any capacity, this is solidified in the fact that I have no plans to ever sell my Cimarron down the line. You're right about the the parallel 70 seat tube and head tube not being very aggressive but I think you're failing to factor in the 18" chainstays and the overall 43" wheelbase. Do you own a Cimarron? Have you spent much time on one? These are great all around mountain bikes, highlighted with the fillet brazed head tube and the lugged double butted 4130 frame. I love these bikes, period! I'm undertaking this customization to see how far I can push the bike, I want to see how well it matches up against the more aggressive geometry of some of my other bikes. I am very familiar with ride of a Bridgestone MB-1, my MB-1 is my favorite bike!
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Old 03-17-13, 02:34 PM   #1253
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Some action shots:




The WTB Slicks 1.5" tires were great on and off road, even on the sandy FL back roads we travelled, they did a great job keeping me stable.
Thanks cobrabyte for sharing the before and after pictures. Great write up on the touring abilities of your vintage Rockhopper, I love reading first hand accounts about bike performance! I was stoked to read that the WTB SLICKS performed well, I was checking them out at REI last weekend, I didn't buy them because I was hoping to read some current reviews. I have a few builds going, I think I'll pick up a set and if they don't work for one build, then they should work for another. Thanks again for sharing your tour!!!
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Old 03-17-13, 03:19 PM   #1254
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You're right about the the parallel 70 seat tube and head tube not being very aggressive but I think you're failing to factor in the 18" chainstays and the overall 43" wheelbase. Do you own a Cimarron? Have you spent much time on one?
Yes and yes. Probably 90% of the riding I've done over the last half year has been on my Cimarron, I love it. I was factoring in the long wheelbase and chainstays, they make it handle like a truck, I think of it as my SUV. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was dissing the Cimarron, just suggesting that there might be a more appropriate tool for the job of building a lightweight 'racing' style mtb (steeper angles, shorter wheelbase, shorter chainstays), but maybe I misunderstood your project.

Here's a picture from an overnight trip that I did last month:



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Thanks! The h-bar bag is a NOS Kirtland bag, it works great with the Nitto mount. The panniers are Jandd and I agree, they make some great bike luggage products. Some of the best available today IMO. I'm thinking about laying down the cash for their full sized MTB panniers (the ones pictured are the "mini MTB panniers".
cobrabyte, that's awesome that you're using a combination of Jandd and Kirtland bags. The panniers I'm using in the photo above are old Kirtland Tourpaks, but I have a set of Jandd's economy panniers that I use for most of my riding (I usually use one and my girlfriend usually uses the other one on her bike). I also have a Jandd handlebar bag, saddle bag, and I recently purchased one of their frame packs too. I've had some problems with the jandd handlebar bag mount putting the weight too high on some bikes, but the frame pack seems like an ok compromise with keeping the weight lower and central on the frame, but still allowing quick access for my camera, phone, or a granola bar etc.
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Old 03-17-13, 05:45 PM   #1255
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I seem to recall hearing the same reasoning in the past for shaving off those pesky derailleur hangers and downtube shifter braze-ons...
why do people get so upset about frame mods? i swear i think fixie conversions have scarred some people in this forum :-p
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Old 03-17-13, 06:28 PM   #1256
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Because the bike will never be the same, and years from now when this owner has had his fill of it, or passes on, the next owner is screwed over completely by someone's lack of thought.,,,,BD
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Old 03-17-13, 11:30 PM   #1257
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Right on frantik! You and I think the same way... I can't get my head around certain people and their narrow minded way of thinking!

As I stated, I have no intent of selling my Cimarron and I could give a damn about the next owner, I'm modifying the bike to fulfill my interests. I don't move through life bothered by how my choices might effect a future owner's happiness, seems like a lame thought process!

Last edited by CbadRider; 03-18-13 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Removed comments that violate forum guidelines
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Old 03-17-13, 11:59 PM   #1258
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Originally Posted by neo_pop_71 View Post
Right on frantik! You and I think the same way... I can't get my head around certain people and their narrow minded way of thinking!

As I stated, I have no intent of selling my Cimarron and I could give a damn about the next owner, I'm modifying the bike to fulfill my interests. I don't move through life bothered by how my choices might effect a future owner's happiness, seems like a lame thought process!
Settle down champ.

I would also question why you would remove something as small (and potentially useful) as eyelets on the fork and frame for purely cosmetic reasons before you find out whether this bike is going to prove itself as a racier variant.

I have some very nice mountain bikes and think that the builders demonstrated some forethought when they included these, one of the things we do a lot of at our frame shop is add eyelets top frames that were built without them because racy bikes often get retired and serve as commuters and leisure oriented bicycles or have to serve some rain duty.

In the end it is your bike and you can do what you want to it and as it was mentioned, it is not an uber rare bicycle and I have taken to performing much more radical work to a number of my own bicycles.

Peace out.

Last edited by CbadRider; 03-18-13 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Edited quoted post
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Old 03-18-13, 12:47 AM   #1259
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I settle nicely when people aren't throwing darts...

Point taken and I can appreciate where you are coming from having added eyelets and such. My point in modifying this bike is for my own selfish indulgence and nothing more. I have no issue in doing so, as I previously mentioned I own four Cimarrons, two are stock and the third got a mild mod with a Nitto Technomic stem and Nitto Albatross bar swap and fenders for use as my commuter. The paint on this frame was horrible, the fork was ruined beyond repair, so it was the perfect candidate for a full mod, fresh paint, and custom rebuild. I love doing this kind of work! I build 6 or 8 bikes a year in this same manner for friends and old customers, they make the best grab and go bikes... total joy but no preciousness hang ups. It's simple, I hate how the eyelets detract from the lines of the bike!

Last edited by neo_pop_71; 03-18-13 at 02:15 AM. Reason: It's all about me... not you!!!
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Old 03-18-13, 12:58 AM   #1260
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I had braze-ons such as fender eyelets ADDED to my racing frame.
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Old 03-18-13, 03:42 AM   #1261
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I just converted this one a few months ago. Forgive the bad pic... Based upon a Cannondale V500, 8 speed 105 brifters, dx rear derailleur, dura ace front, deore dx crankset with little ring removed. XT hubs and Mavic rims. Fun!

Why did you ditch the headshok?
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Old 03-18-13, 03:56 AM   #1262
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Back to the show-and-tell...



This one is an Asahi Palisade, Tange Infinity MTB tubing, bought as a bare frame to build up as a commuter/tourer for small riders. Two sets of eyelets front and back, low 27" standover with those Ritchey 26x1.4" tires. I ran RSX 3x7 brifters at the request of my buddy who bought it from me for his gf, who soon went her own way, miraculously LEAVING THE BIKE BEHIND. So now it's fodder for the for sale/trade thread, wink wink... Check out the Sugino 152mm crankset, I thought the crank arms should be proportional to the rider. They're available in a bunch of other sizes, and Origin8 is making shorter crankarms for doubles these days, too.

Oh yeah, and while I have this one cued up in my frontal lobe, I've read in this thread that Gary bars do not accept bar ends. During my first buildup of this bike, the narrow 38cm non-ergo bars didn't either. That is, until I bought a brand new set of pods that hadn't been used in larger diameter bars, so the wedges hadn't been deformed yet. These drops are of an especially thick walled tubing, so the ID is way less than any drop bars I've ever seen, yet the brand new SL-BS50 pods slid right in where a used set wouldn't. I'm going to try them on some Garys at the LBS and get back to you with my results,
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Old 03-18-13, 04:20 AM   #1263
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man people getting crazy over eyelets.. which apparently aren't even that hard to add back on

I wonder how many vintage bikes were destroyed on Mt Tam during the genesis of mountain biking..
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Old 03-18-13, 11:14 AM   #1264
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While I have no intent of selling any of my keeper bikes, it seems like they last a couple of years, and then they are moved on to another home. So I refrain from any irreversible modifications. I do feel free to change components, wheels, whatever. But I leave frames alone, other than dealing with rust.

Of course, its your bike, so do what you want with it. The Cimmaron is certainly an uncommon bike/closing in on rare. I've seen one for sale in my area in the past four years, and I bought it. MTBs do not receive much respect right now, eventually that will change. IMHO, unusual ones like this one, that represent Schwinn's last gasp at manufacturing, will become desirable. But then again, my success at predicting changing trends is poor.

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Old 03-18-13, 11:28 AM   #1265
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Neo, it's your bike and you can do as you please. And I'm sure it'll not be lacking any function as you have planned for it. Post the finished product once it's completed, I'm looking forward to seeing it.
I had a mid 90s Diamond Back Ascent EX frame gifted to me. Rear dropouts had no separate eyelets brazed on, but threaded holes incorporated into the body of the dropout. Looked very clean. I was planning a mtb cyclocross build up for it. So I understand the minimalist look.

We just got to remember, to agree to disagreeing.
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Old 03-18-13, 11:37 AM   #1266
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While I have no intent of selling any of my keeper bikes, it seems like they last a couple of years, and then they are moved on to another home. So I refrain from any irreversible modifications. I do feel free to change components, wheels, whatever. But I leave frames alone, other than dealing with rust.

Of course, its your bike, so do what you want with it. The Cimmaron is certainly an uncommon bike/closing in on rare. I've seen one for sale in my area in the past four years, and I bought it. MTBs do not receive much respect right now, eventually that will change. IMHO, unusual ones like this one, that represent Schwinn's last gasp at manufacturing, will become desirable. But then again, my success at predicting changing trends is poor.
Ha-Ha see, Thrifty Bill says it's my bike and I can do what I want... so, buzz off!!!

Bill, I always enjoy reading your comments, thanks for contributing! I'm not sure I agree about your predictions, you've been all over bar end shifters for some time and they are the hot retro item these days. Plus, I've checked out your bike collection and any one of those bikes would catch someone's interest... I think you and you're crystal MTN ball are doing well.
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Old 03-18-13, 11:49 AM   #1267
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Neo, it's your bike and you can do as you please. And I'm sure it'll not be lacking any function as you have planned for it. Post the finished product once it's completed, I'm looking forward to seeing it.
I had a mid 90s Diamond Back Ascent EX frame gifted to me. Rear dropouts had no separate eyelets brazed on, but threaded holes incorporated into the body of the dropout. Looked very clean. I was planning a mtb cyclocross build up for it. So I understand the minimalist look.

We just got to remember, to agree to disagreeing.
Thanks WNG, I appreciate the support ! ! !

Do you have any pics of your D.B. Ascent EX? I'd like to see that frame, it sounds like the perfect frame for me to start hunting for! Your D.B. sounds great, I'd love to see some pics if yo have any to share!

As much as I couldn't stand the frames with the brake bosses mounted under the chainstays as I hate U/Pitbull brakes, I loved the look of the clean and clear seatstays!
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Old 03-18-13, 12:05 PM   #1268
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Originally Posted by Taxi Rob View Post
This one is an Asahi Palisade, Tange Infinity MTB tubing, bought as a bare frame to build up as a commuter/tourer for small riders. Two sets of eyelets front and back, low 27" standover with those Ritchey 26x1.4" tires. I ran RSX 3x7 brifters at the request of my buddy who bought it from me for his gf, who soon went her own way, miraculously LEAVING THE BIKE BEHIND.
Nice, I think you bought this frameset from me along with the Alpina Pro and the Nishiki ONP. Not a lot of info out there on Asahi, but I remember this being a cool frame, it's cool to see it built up with drops and brifters for a rider of shorter stature. Do you have the Alpina Pro built up with drops?
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Old 03-18-13, 12:49 PM   #1269
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Do you have any pics of your D.B. Ascent EX? I'd like to see that frame, it sounds like the perfect frame for me to start hunting for! Your D.B. sounds great, I'd love to see some pics if yo have any to share!
Unfortunately, the (soon-to-be-ex) wife managed to get into my flickr account and deleted over 2500 photos! Fortunately, most are backed up. I will see if I can find old photos of the frame. It's pretty light made from Tru Temper AVR/AVS tubing. It's in limbo at the moment stuck in our house as divorce proceeds.
>:-(
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Old 03-18-13, 01:07 PM   #1270
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That's the beauty of it, you can do what you want, and I'll do what I want! I don't feel like anything I've done has diminished the bike in any capacity, this is solidified in the fact that I have no plans to ever sell my Cimarron down the line. You're right about the the parallel 70 seat tube and head tube not being very aggressive but I think you're failing to factor in the 18" chainstays and the overall 43" wheelbase. Do you own a Cimarron? Have you spent much time on one? These are great all around mountain bikes, highlighted with the fillet brazed head tube and the lugged double butted 4130 frame. I love these bikes, period! I'm undertaking this customization to see how far I can push the bike, I want to see how well it matches up against the more aggressive geometry of some of my other bikes. I am very familiar with ride of a Bridgestone MB-1, my MB-1 is my favorite bike!
Love the tires on the MB-1. I have those same tires on my 87 Panasonic MC-6500. My MC6500 has a 71* head and 73* seat and it climbs trails well and generally rides perfectly. Its comfy, fast, and stable. The bike fits me perfectly. The cimmaron is an amazing bike, slack angles or not.
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Old 03-18-13, 01:19 PM   #1271
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I like this thread. I mean, I really like it. Why? Because I feel that these old bikes are forgotten, as department store "mountain" bikes and "hybrid" bikes have tainted their public reputation among all but the more enthusiastic riders. When you see a guy riding through an alley with a flashlight duct taped to his handlebars and bags of bottles and cans where his panniers should be, it doesn't paint a pretty picture. I see more cheap suspension MTB and hybrid bikes abandoned than any other style, maybe because of their relatively low price and quality, but probably in part due to the stigma.

Now here we are with our fancy vintage bikes that have survived through whatever miracle to afford us with the ride geometry we are looking for, as well as their historical value. As progenitors of the fully sprung carbon species adorning the hitch racks and truck beds of serious off road riders, they are invaluable. As owners and riders, we give them new life each day as we enjoy ours with them. It doesn't matter what we do to them as long as they are RIDDEN and loved.

That spirit of simple enjoyment and discovery is what this is about to me. The popularity of hybrids and cyclocross began with the mods we are doing to our own rigs now, maybe from road bikes and mountain bikes equally, but from the early MTB boom days without question. We are rediscovering history, and riding it. Stop badgering each other about frame mods and just enjoy the show, as much as the ride.

Because ultimately, though we rant and rave and argue about them out of real love and respect, to the rest of the public, we may still in fact look like a bunch of tweekers on our crazily cobbled-together old junk.
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Old 03-18-13, 02:29 PM   #1272
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I don't think I've heard it put any better, very well said Taxi Rob!!!

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...we may still in fact look like a bunch of tweekers on our crazily cobbled-together old junk.
Too true and I took one extra large creative step after recovering my '89 Schwinn 974 (Schwinn licensed Klein) was stolen by a tweeker, I crippled the fool but not before he had most the parts stripped and the gorgeous blue partially spray painted black. I went way custom in the rebuild, all the way down to the "meth people" decals I had made... every tweeker around knew my bike when it was done, they knew the horrible beating their buddy received in my recovering the bike. I never had another negative issue arise, only praise on the build or questions about what's the back story. I love my bumble bee rocket ship!!!
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Old 03-18-13, 02:51 PM   #1273
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Agreed, Taxi Rob. I find more inspiration here than anywhere else in the forums.
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Old 03-18-13, 02:59 PM   #1274
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Why did you ditch the headshok?

C'dale made that frame for a couple of years with or without the headshock. This one could've been one of the models without it to start with
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Old 03-18-13, 03:16 PM   #1275
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Because the bike will never be the same, and years from now when this owner has had his fill of it, or passes on, the next owner is screwed over completely by someone's lack of thought.,,,,BD
His bike, his rules. Just saw a nice old Ciocc that was fixie converted yesterday. Again, not my bike nor my business, but it makes my unmolested Italian bikes worth more, one butchered frame at a time
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